Unsportsmanlike?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by MeRef

I am not going to give you a wide berth and give up my rightful place on the court.

Hate to break it to you, but the defender has every right to that place on the court, not you (the offensive player).


4-23-1 . . . Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent.


What you espouse is thuggery and has no place in HS athletics.

PS Starting to wonder: MeRef = Old School ?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

It's a beautiful place in which you live, but it's not reality.

You, of course, in your violent and hazardous world have a complete view of the world...

Originally Posted by MeRef

Have you ever played college ball?

I thought this thread was about JH ball and HS rules??

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Hate to break it to you, but the defender has every right to that place on the court, not you (the offensive player).


4-23-1 . . . Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded. Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent.


What you espouse is thuggery and has no place in HS athletics.

PS Starting to wonder: MeRef = Old School ?

4.7.1 applies here if we use reasoned judgment that as the game was progressing that A1 was not letting B move and B contact A1 who was an inch away. "Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with OR WITHOUT the ball."

"...facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Rev.Ref63

Team A is playing a box-n-one defense on team B. Player A is closely guarding player B even when team A is on offense. He is guarding him very closely, facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face. Needless to say, player B was quite frustrated and was quite ineffective. Is this unsportsmanlike?

BTW, I was a spectator at this game.

MeReF -- Doesn't sound like there's any mention of not leaving time or distance. The question was whether close guarding is allowed even when the guarding team is on offense. There's no mention of contact, or cutting in. If you as the guarded player get physical in this situation, the foul is going to be on you. Gauze in the nose, as you reference, or the guard falling to the ground, and I might call it intentional. NO REF is gonna miss that kind of contact. Unbelievable....

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You, of course, in your violent and hazardous world have a complete view of the world...



I thought this thread was about JH ball and HS rules??

Like I said, my comments were from a college player's perspective and I should have more clearly stated that. However, when I said "I", I thought you knew I was speaking from MY older vantagepoint.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

4.7.1 applies here if we use reasoned judgment that as the game was progressing that A1 was not letting B move and B contact A1 who was an inch away. "Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with OR WITHOUT the ball."

"...facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face....

Note the word ILLEGAL. Staring in the face is not illegal. Hello....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

Like I said, my comments were from a college player's perspective and I should have more clearly stated that. However, when I said "I", I thought you knew I was speaking from MY older vantagepoint.

Your older vantage point as a player, not a ref. I hope before I ref one of your games you identify yourself to me. I will want to know who to keep a very, very close eye on.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

MeReF -- Doesn't sound like there's any mention of not leaving time or distance. The question was whether close guarding is allowed even when the guarding team is on offense. There's no mention of contact, or cutting in. If you as the guarded player get physical in this situation, the foul is going to be on you. Gauze in the nose, as you reference, or the guard falling to the ground, and I might call it intentional. NO REF is gonna miss that kind of contact. Unbelievable....

You call a foul every time a body hits the floor or a guy holds his nose? Reallly? You are able to see that EVERY time?? Plueesse.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by MeRef

4.7.1 applies here if we use reasoned judgment that as the game was progressing that A1 was not letting B move and B contact A1 who was an inch away. "Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with OR WITHOUT the ball."

"...facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face....

Where is the contact that is illegal? A1 is an inch away - that seems to indicate no contact. If B1 tries to get around A1, and A1 holds or blocks him to prevent B1's getting around him, then it should be a foul call.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by MeRef

4.7.1 applies here if we use reasoned judgment that as the game was progressing that A1 was not letting B move and B contact A1 who was an inch away. "Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with OR WITHOUT the ball."

"...facing him and staring right in his face. Player B had no room to even take a step forward. On one free throw, player B went to the opposite end and player A continued to shadow him and get in his face....

Where does the OP say that the defensive player made illegal contact?

Sorry, but you're wrong. Once the defender establishes LGP he may move to maintain it. He may also be as close as possible without causing contact.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MeRef

Ok, now lets talk rules. Much better. According to the original post, the defender was not giving proper time and distance to the player in several instances he mentioned. That is a block, not a legal defense. Don't twist the situation to make it fit your point.

What usually happens on hard blocks or charges???

Yup, just another rec league warrior with the ol' macho rec league attitude. Same old, same old.

Waste of time arguing with this one, folks. He'll never get it.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, just another rec league warrior with the ol' macho rec league attitude. Same old, same old.

Waste of time arguing with this one, folks. He'll never get it.

Right, but as usual, we're making sure that other lurkers do get it clearly. Thanks to MeRef for giving us a chance to spell this one out clearly.

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Where is the contact that is illegal? A1 is an inch away - that seems to indicate no contact. If B1 tries to get around A1, and A1 holds or blocks him to prevent B1's getting around him, then it should be a foul call.

Correct, this thread does call for a little bit of extrapolation unless these guys think the players are stationary the whole game. it is reasonable to assume that illegal contact will eventually occur when "Player B had no room to even take a step forward.". All one has to do is envison a cut back to the left and running into the defender or the defender cutting him off and creating contact.

I guess if we can't extrapolate the OP then we are done.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

You call a foul every time a body hits the floor or a guy holds his nose? Reallly? You are able to see that EVERY time?? Plueesse.

NO, I don't call a foul every time a body hits the fllor, but when there's a close guard I am watching closely to see what causes that body to fall on the floor. If I see you "running through" Or putting your "arms held high", believe me, if you cause that fall, I'll see it and I'll call it. And knowin g your attitude, I might very well call it intentional. Pulleeezzz (note spelling).

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by MeRef

Correct, this thread does call for a little bit of extrapolation unless these guys think the players are stationary the whole game. it is reasonable to assume that illegal contact will eventually occur when "Player B had no room to even take a step forward.". All one has to do is envison a cut back to the left and running into the defender or the defender cutting him off and creating contact.

I guess if we can't extrapolate the OP then we are done.

And we've all advocated calling that when it happens. No one has said to let it go. Why does that allow the guarded player to run through the guard?