Team control?

My first 3 person game of the year, girls varsity late in the 4th quarter A1 has the ball for a frontcourt throw-in on the endline, A2 shoves B2 in an attempt to receive the entry pass & quick layup. I call a push foul (before the throw-in was released) and signal 2 FTs as both teams have 10+ fouls.

My R (a vet who worked a V game earlier in the day) runs over to me & says "No thats team control... no FTs"...

Post game I told her that I was now confused because I thought there was no team control on dead balls, throw-ins, jump balls & when the ball is in flight on a shot attempt.
She said that she would check & get back with me.

Haven't heard a word, any help??

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

My first 3 person game of the year, girls varsity late in the 4th quarter A1 has the ball for a frontcourt throw-in on the endline, A2 shoves B2 in an attempt to receive the entry pass & quick layup. I call a push foul (before the throw-in was released) and signal 2 FTs as both teams have 10+ fouls.

My R (a vet who worked a V game earlier in the day) runs over to me & says "No thats team control... no FTs"...

Post game I told her that I was now confused because I thought there was no team control on dead balls, throw-ins, jump balls & when the ball is in flight on a shot attempt.
She said that she would check & get back with me.

Haven't heard a word, any help??

You are correct, no TC during throw-in 4.12.6...should've shot the FT's..NCAA there is TC during throw in, but not NF...

Ok, that's a NCAA rule? She does work that level, so maybe that confused her.

Since our season has started last Thursday I've worked 5 games in 3 days, all games were with well-respected veterans. 2 of those games I've seen a misaplication of fairly new rules. As I previously stated, 1 of those times it was my call & I was made to change it.

As a new official how should I handle situations that I know aren't right & not piss off my senior officials?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Ok, that's a NCAA rule? She does work that level, so maybe that confused her.

Since our season has started last Thursday I've worked 5 games in 3 days, all games were with well-respected veterans. 2 of those games I've seen a misaplication of fairly new rules. As I previously stated, 1 of those times it was my call & I was made to change it.

As a new official how should I handle situations that I know aren't right & not piss off my senior officials?

I too find this can get touchy. I usually wait until a TO, half-time, between games and discuss it like, "remember that play....I thought the rule stated....or what was your rational there?" If they're going on "gut" or give me some BS (possible), I will look it up later. I would rather know the rule and what to do next time.

But, I will also probably not bring it up again, unless I found just the right situation.

Of course, I have a lot to learn and am wrong sometimes too.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Ok, that's a NCAA rule? She does work that level, so maybe that confused her.

Since our season has started last Thursday I've worked 5 games in 3 days, all games were with well-respected veterans. 2 of those games I've seen a misaplication of fairly new rules. As I previously stated, 1 of those times it was my call & I was made to change it.

As a new official how should I handle situations that I know aren't right & not piss off my senior officials?

If you know the official works college, that is your "in" right there, if you know for a fact that the official's call is incorrect per NF rules, just ask "is that NF or NCAA?" That will probably get them thinking right away...I would have no problem pulling the rulebook at halftime or after the game, but just do it the right way...for instance, "ok help me out with something here, in 4.12.6 it says that there is no TC during a throw-in, so why didn't we shoot there?" I would think that if you aren't sporting a "i'm right/you're wrong" attitude and are acting as if you genuinely want to learn, you will not piss anyone off....most officials are more than happy to help, just ask them to explain their decision making process....

[truerookie]

Ok, This is why we have a pre-game and being a first year official(s) you can play the not well informed role and ask questions indirectly. Situations like these can be covered before we even get out of the floor. From my experiences, when I work with other officials who work at the NCAA level we cover rule differences between the two levels

For example: In feds is there team control during a throw-in?

Normally, we pull out the rule book and hash it out before entering the court.

This way all is good

But, when I know 100% that I'm correct I will not change my call.

Showing confidence is part of the maturation process.

Originally Posted by truerookie

Ok, This is why we have a pre-game and being a first year official(s) you can play the not well informed role and ask questions indirectly. Situations like these can be covered before we even get out of the floor. From my experiences, when I work with other officials who work at the NCAA level we cover rule differences between the two levels

For example: In feds is there team control during a throw-in?

Normally, we pull out the rule book and hash it out before entering the court.

This way all is good

But, when I know 100% that I'm correct I will not change my call.

Showing confidence is part of the maturation process.

We did have the detailed, long version pregame but TC in that situation was not covered.
It's good to know that I don't have to let the R change my call when I know that I'm right. Think I'll go that route from now on.
Thanks

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

We did have the detailed, long version pregame but TC in that situation was not covered.
It's good to know that I don't have to let the R change my call when I know that I'm right. Think I'll go that route from now on.
Thanks

This is why it's even more important for you to know the rules 100%. If you're going to go against your R in that situation, you'd better be absolutely sure you're right (which it sounds like you were in this situation).

If that's your route, IMO you're best served to say exactly what the case is, ie, "No, there is no team control during a throw-in according to NFHS rules, therefore we will shoot the free throws. You can come down on me after the game if I'm wrong, but I'm certain I'm not."

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=jdw3018]This is why it's even more important for you to know the rules 100%. If you're going to go against your R in that situation, you'd better be absolutely sure you're right (which it sounds like you were in this situation).

If that's your route, IMO you're best served to say exactly what the case is, ie, "No, there is no team control during a throw-in according to NFHS rules, therefore we will shoot the free throws. You can come down on me after the game if I'm wrong, but I'm certain I'm not."[/QUOTE]

I agree. The veteran should support and encourage newer officials.