Unsporting Foul

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

JR I respect your input so let me further explain:

On a shot, If B2 extends his arm 45 degrees and puts his hand 1 inch away from A2's face, I believe the face guarding rule applies warranting the Unsporting Foul.

The most descriptive part of this post is the fact you stated the defender had their hand about an inch away from their face. The 45 degrees means nothing to me or has nothing to do with the rule. The rules says it is illegal to put their hands "near the eyes" of an opponent (10-3-7d Note).

And for the record the inch away from the eyes was not in your original description. And from a philosophy standpoint, I would have to see it before I made this call. I would not want to just call something just because it was close. I might even warn a player if I think that is what they were trying to do.

Originally Posted by Da Official

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent? It is illegal in football, baseball, and basketball.

Also it is not appropriate to compare football and baseball to this discussion. First of all there is no rule for face guarding in baseball. The rule is obstruction or interference based on trying to prevent movement or making a play. Even in some cases preventing such action would be legal under the right circumstances. In Football face guarding is only illegal on forward passes and it is also illegal regardless of a specific distance. These examples have nothing to do with basketball and the rule basketball came up with. There are some things you can translate, this is not one of them.

Peace

[Da Official]

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

[TD21]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

Nobody calls it becuase it rarely if ever happens. What you are describing is a defensive player closing out and contesting a shot. The rule you are misapplying is made to prevent a playing from continuously restricting another players vision. You can contest a shot by putting your hand up. You can not stand next to a player and continually wave you hand in their face so they can't see what is going on around them. This rule, much like a few others, would have to be a pretty excessive act in order to be called.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TD21

Nobody calls it becuase it rarely if ever happens. What you are describing is a defensive player closing out and contesting a shot. The rule you are misapplying is made to prevent a playing from continuously restricting another players vision. You can contest a shot by putting your hand up. You can not stand next to a player and continually wave you hand in their face so they can't see what is going on around them. This rule, much like a few others, would have to be a pretty excessive act in order to be called.

Bingo!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?

It might be. But the rule is not called face guarding (if you want to be technical) and the rule says it is illegal to, "Purposely obstructing an opponent's vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes."

Then the rule goes on to say under a note: "Purposely diverting an opponent's attention by waving is different than holding or waving the hands near the opponent's eyes for the express purpose of obstructing the vision so that he/she cannot see."

The NF made it clear this rule was to prevent poking someone in the face, not normal defending of a play by putting their arms up. The rule was not put in place to prevent defending a shot or a pass which requires waving of arms in many cases.

Originally Posted by Da Official

Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Honestly, I think you are having a harder time with this rule than most. For one I almost never see a player but there hand that close to someone's face without fouling them. And unsporting fouls are for non-contact situations, not ones that involve contact. Do not be a maverick because you read a rule.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NF made it clear this rule was to prevent poking someone in the face, not normal defending of a play by putting their arms up. The rule was not put in place to prevent defending a shot or a pass which requires waving of arms in many cases.

For one I almost never see a player but there hand that close to someone's face without fouling them. And unsporting fouls are for non-contact situations, not ones that involve contact. Do not be a maverick because you read a rule.

Bingo!!

[swkansasref33]

so, what do you call it? you said that you used to just call it a foul, and I am curious as to what call you used, and the signal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

so, what do you call it? you said that you used to just call it a foul, and I am curious as to what call you used, and the signal.

Faceguarding has always been a technical foul.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Faceguarding has always been a technical foul.

It has against the player without the ball, however, it was only recently changed to include the player with the ball.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Da Official

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

Then context in which I last called it was an inbounds play and the guard was "face guarding" his opponent and was holding his hands in front of the players face. The offensive player actually smacked his hand away once and he put it back again right in the players face. This is much different than closing out on a shot for instance and attempting to divert the concentration of the offsensive player on the shot....the only purpose of this was to obstruct his opponent's vision so he couldn't see....you are rarely if ever going to see this in a hs game b/c the coaches/players generally know this rule..i had it in an 8th grade game...

[TheOracle]

KB, how about a quick whistle, stop the inbounds play, say "Hey, get your hands away from his face!", and start again. I bet that would solve the problem for the game and be a very easy, non-controversial fix.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

KB, how about a quick whistle, stop the inbounds play, say "Hey, get your hands away from his face!", and start again. I bet that would solve the problem for the game and be a very easy, non-controversial fix.

Absolutely could have done that, I actually questioned myself on that when I I posted this last week. In that situation, the game was getting extremely heated and they had been double and triple teaming this kid all over the floor (he was by far their best player). On top of that the coach for the defensive team was screaming "GET IN HIS FACE"....now I will grant you that as we have seen in numerous posts/threads today and yesterday, none of what they had been doing to this point was a foul, but in my judgement when I added all of that up, considered the direction the game was going, and in an attempt to get things under control, once they did something that WAS a tech (and blatant), I went right with it rather than the warning...this was the first time in 18 or so years that I have ever called one, only SEEN it called one other time...the call itself turned out to be very non-controversial, the coach asked what his kid did, I went over and explained it and that was that, no further questions..