Unsporting Foul

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Question: I know the rules say something to the effect that an Unsporting Foul is a non contact technical foul...

Help me to understand does the Unsporting Foul count in the scorebook as a common foul or Technical foul?

And if Technical foul it will count against the player's limit of 2 Technicals correct?

How many times have you actually seen a ref call an Unsporting Foul for Face Guarding?



Thanks!

Ha ha called one last week! Yes it is a technical foul, counts as a team foul towards bonus as well as a players 2 technicals for ejection.....

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Ha ha called one last week! Yes it is a technical foul, counts as a team foul towards bonus as well as a players 2 technicals for ejection.....

It also counts as one of the five fouls toward a player's disqualification.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It also counts as one of the five fouls toward a player's disqualification.

true as well

[JRutledge]

That rule for face guarding has only been around for a couple of years. Or the clarification has been around only for a couple of years. I have seen what would be clearly called a T today a few times in my career. None since the rule was change/clarified.

Peace

[Da Official]

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

Good call, imo.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

They can block their vision, they just cannot put their hands or arms directly in their face. I hope you are not calling it because they are trying to block vision. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from poking opponents in the eyes or directly in the face. This is not a penalty because someone just simply held their hand up.

Peace

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They can block their vision, they just cannot put their hands or arms directly in their face. I hope you are not calling it because they are trying to block vision. The purpose of the rule is to prevent people from poking opponents in the eyes or directly in the face. This is not a penalty because someone just simply held their hand up.

Peace

JR I respect your input so let me further explain:

On a shot, If B2 extends his arm 45 degrees and puts his hand 1 inch away from A2's face, I believe the face guarding rule applies warranting the Unsporting Foul.

On a shot, If B2's defensive position is 1 inch from A2 and B2 puts his hands straight up and cover's A2's face then I believe this would be legal due to the rule of verticality being that B2 has a right to his vertical space.

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent? It is illegal in football, baseball, and basketball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Da Official

JR I respect your input so let me further explain:

On a shot, If B2 extends his arm 45 degrees and puts his hand 1 inch away from A2's face, I believe the face guarding rule applies warranting the Unsporting Foul.

The most descriptive part of this post is the fact you stated the defender had their hand about an inch away from their face. The 45 degrees means nothing to me or has nothing to do with the rule. The rules says it is illegal to put their hands "near the eyes" of an opponent (10-3-7d Note).

And for the record the inch away from the eyes was not in your original description. And from a philosophy standpoint, I would have to see it before I made this call. I would not want to just call something just because it was close. I might even warn a player if I think that is what they were trying to do.

Originally Posted by Da Official

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent? It is illegal in football, baseball, and basketball.

Also it is not appropriate to compare football and baseball to this discussion. First of all there is no rule for face guarding in baseball. The rule is obstruction or interference based on trying to prevent movement or making a play. Even in some cases preventing such action would be legal under the right circumstances. In Football face guarding is only illegal on forward passes and it is also illegal regardless of a specific distance. These examples have nothing to do with basketball and the rule basketball came up with. There are some things you can translate, this is not one of them.

Peace

[Da Official]

But JR...you do agree that "Face Guarding" is an attempt to obstruct someone's vision correct?


Guys I'm just wondering when is this ever called? I've never seen an official call this foul (other than myself). Why is it in the rule book if nobody understands it or wants to call it?

Peace...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Also, what is "face guarding" other than attempting to obstruct the vision of the opponent?

The face-guarding rule was changed in 2004-05 to include players with the ball. Previously, it only applied to players without the ball.

From the POE that year: "The committee does not intend for good defense to be penalized. Challenging a shooter with a "hand in the face" or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass are examples of acceptable actions. The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision. Often, that occurs off the ball or as players are moving up the court in transition."

Iow, it is perfectly legal to put a hand in a shooter's face. There are no restrictions about having an arm straight up or at a 45-degree angle. It's strictly a judgment call, and imo it's good judgment to keep away from making this call on a shooter. Mileage may vary.

[Da Official]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The face-guarding rule was changed in 2004-05 to include players with the ball. Previously, it only applied to players without the ball.

From the POE that year: "The committee does not intend for good defense to be penalized. Challenging a shooter with a "hand in the face" or fronting a post player with a hand in the air to prevent a post pass are examples of acceptable actions. The rule and point of emphasis is designed to penalize actions that are clearly not related to playing the game of basketball properly and that intentionally restrict vision. Often, that occurs off the ball or as players are moving up the court in transition."

Iow, it is perfectly legal to put a hand in a shooter's face. There are no restrictions about having an arm straight up or at a 45-degree angle.

Thanks for the discussion and the supported documentation! It makes more sense to me now.

A wise man loves knowledge and discipline...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Da Official

Reason I ask is I called a few of these in Adult Rec games and the players act like I've just made up the rule out of thin air. LOL!

I tell the player when you defend a shot and put your hands straight up you're fine, but when you intentionally extend your arms 45 degrees and delibertly attempt to cover the shooters eyes it is an Unsporting Foul.

To be honest when I first started calling these I reported it as a foul...now I give em' the "T".

If you called a "few" of these, and there have been others that you didn't call, it's likely that you're "over applying" the rule. That is, what you are seeing isn't really a technical foul.