Is This Player Control?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by kbilla

"the act of legally placing the body in the path of an opponent"...so what does that mean to you? does that mean there has to be actual "movement" into the path? in your opinion, when in my example does A1 begin "guarding" vs. "screening"?

kbilla:

Please read completely the two sections in Rule 4 that cover guarding and screening. Then tell me what what are the differences between guarding and screening, especially how a player obtains a legal guarding position and how a player sets a screen. As JR said in a post above, you are confusing guarding principles with screening principles. AND, yes defensive players can set screens. Read the definition of screening.

Remember, if a player has legally gained a position on the court, he can stand there the entire game. And if he never moves from that position the entire game and an opponent runs into him, guess what, his opponent has committed a foul against him.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

kbilla:

Please read completely the two sections in Rule 4 that cover guarding and screening. Then tell me what what are the differences between guarding and screening, especially how a player obtains a legal guarding position and how a player sets a screen. As JR said in a post above, you are confusing guarding principles with screening principles. AND, yes defensive players can set screens. Read the definition of screening.

MTD, Sr.

And remember that the defender might be doing something that is neither screening nor guarding.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

kbilla:

Please read completely the two sections in Rule 4 that cover guarding and screening. Then tell me what what are the differences between guarding and screening, especially how a player obtains a legal guarding position and how a player sets a screen. As JR said in a post above, you are confusing guarding principles with screening principles. AND, yes defensive players can set screens. Read the definition of screening.

Remember, if a player has legally gained a position on the court, he can stand there the entire game. And if he never moves from that position the entire game and an opponent runs into him, guess what, his opponent has committed a foul against him.

MTD, Sr.

I just re-read them again completely...by definition they don't appear a whole heck of a lot different, "legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" vs. "legal action without contact that delays or prevents an opponent from obtaining a desired position". what is different are the requirements for each, most applicable in this thread being that if you are screening there is no need to face the opponent, whereas you must be facing in order to obtain LGP. Are you drawing your difference from the fact that A1 didn't "move" into a guarding position, since he/she was already standing there you have a screen? What if A1 moved a step to his/her left and B1 slammed into A1's back, what do you have there? As I posted much earlier, what if B1 saw that A1 was dribbling to a certain spot and B1 got there first with his/her back turned, do you have a pc foul if there is contact? I realize that I may have been a bit too aggressive applying the guarding principle in the OP, I am just trying to see where you all draw the line....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Are you drawing your difference from the fact that A1 didn't "move" into a guarding position, since he/she was already standing there you have a screen? What if A1 moved a step to his/her left and B1 slammed into A1's back, what do you have there? As I posted much earlier, what if B1 saw that A1 was dribbling to a certain spot and B1 got there first with his/her back turned, do you have a pc foul if there is contact? I realize that I may have been a bit too aggressive applying the guarding principle in the OP, I am just trying to see where you all draw the line....

Kbilla in the OP the guy who shot the ft and then got fouled was neither screening nor guarding, but he had a legal position on the floor which was violated by the opponent who came down on top of him. It wasn't a block, because the player in front wasn't blocking. and it was PC because the player behind initiated contact, and caused the contact illegally.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Kbilla in the OP the guy who shot the ft and then got fouled was neither screening nor guarding, but he had a legal position on the floor which was violated by the opponent who came down on top of him. It wasn't a block, because the player in front wasn't blocking. and it was PC because the player behind initiated contact, and caused the contact illegally.

ok, point conceded, what about the other sections of my last post?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I just re-read them again completely...by definition they don't appear a whole heck of a lot different, "legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" vs. "legal action without contact that delays or prevents an opponent from obtaining a desired position". what is different are the requirements for each, most applicable in this thread being that if you are screening there is no need to face the opponent, whereas you must be facing in order to obtain LGP. Are you drawing your difference from the fact that A1 didn't "move" into a guarding position, since he/she was already standing there you have a screen? What if A1 moved a step to his/her left and B1 slammed into A1's back, what do you have there? As I posted much earlier, what if B1 saw that A1 was dribbling to a certain spot and B1 got there first with his/her back turned, do you have a pc foul if there is contact? I realize that I may have been a bit too aggressive applying the guarding principle in the OP, I am just trying to see where you all draw the line....

Atta boy kbilla, now you are getting the hang of it. We are going to make a top notch basketball official out of you yet.

MTD, Sr.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Atta boy kbilla, now you are getting the hang of it. We are going to make a top notch basketball official out of you yet.

MTD, Sr.

aw shucks thanks but i did have conflicting statements in my last post, i understand now why you are saying there is a pc foul, because the player did not attempt to guard/did not move into a guarding position. however, if the defender takes a step towards where the offensive player is dribbling, am i correct to say that THAT would be considered "guarding" so that even if the defender got there first, if they did not have LGP you have a block?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kbilla

however, if the defender takes a step towards where the offensive player is dribbling, am i correct to say that THAT would be considered "guarding" so that even if the defender got there first, if they did not have LGP you have a block?

If the defender is moving toward the dribbler, there is no time or distance required, and if he establishes his position before contact, it's PC.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If the defender is moving toward the dribbler, there is no time or distance required, and if he establishes his position before contact, it's PC.

Correct no time or distance, but LGP is once you determine that you have a "defender"....thanks..

[rainmaker]

Okay, you asked about your other points so here goes....

Originally Posted by kbilla

I just re-read them again completely...by definition they don't appear a whole heck of a lot different, "legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent" vs. "legal action without contact that delays or prevents an opponent from obtaining a desired position".

I think the biggest difference is that screening is a "set" thing and guarding can be a moving thing.

Originally Posted by kbilla

what is different are the requirements for each, most applicable in this thread being that if you are screening there is no need to face the opponent, whereas you must be facing in order to obtain LGP.

and remember that guarding can involve movement where screeining is mainly a stand.

A[QUOTE=kbilla]re you drawing your difference from the fact that A1 didn't "move" into a guarding position, since he/she was already standing there you have a screen? That might be what he's aiming at. But you also need to remember that even if A1 moved, he might not need to conform to LGP. If they're both going for the rebound (which in the OP they were) they just need to maintain their own legal positions. If one moves into the other, that's the one that fouled.

Originally Posted by kbilla

What if A1 moved a step to his/her left and B1 slammed into A1's back, what do you have there?

see above.

Originally Posted by kbilla

As I posted much earlier, what if B1 saw that A1 was dribbling to a certain spot and B1 got there first with his/her back turned, do you have a pc foul if there is contact? .

I'd say if B1 appeared to be trying to stop the dribbler and just didn't get into position in time, then I'd call it a block. But if he was actually guarding someone else, and just happened to be there, of if he turned backward to shield himself from the contact, that's PC.

Originally Posted by kbilla

I realize that I may have been a bit too aggressive applying the guarding principle in the OP, I am just trying to see where you all draw the line....

That's a legitimate thing to do. The aggression will mellow with time.