Head Coache's Rule

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kbilla

You have just realized one of the biggest dilemas that officials face, especially when they are rated by coaches (which they are in IL as well).

Coach’s ratings in Illinois are not even 1/8 of the Power rating (the percentile is combined with Certified officials). So I would hope that anyone from Illinois is not worried about what a coach might rate you. Also the ratings only apply to varsity contests of a particular gender. Ratings do not apply at lower level games and do not mean because you have higher ratings than other officials you will get post season assignments. So if an issue like this needs to be addressed (which I do not see anything different needing to be done other than the officials way officials on the court handled it in this particular game) if ratings are your motivation, then you are not really aware of how our system works. In other states the coach's ratings might mean everything. Here in Illinois they do not.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coach’s ratings in Illinois are not even 1/8 of the Power rating (the percentile is combined with Certified officials).

So what makes up the other approx 7/8? Is it stuff that all officials may score similarly on or get the maximum score from? If so, then isn't this last bit what separates the officials and makes the difference in the selections for postseason?

Of course, I don't know that specifics of Illinois and really don't want to, but the logic of this argument would apply to anywhere that used coaches' ratings as a part of the officials ranking. One must examine closely how much of an impact it has, even if it is only a small percentage. That small number could be the difference maker.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So what makes up the other approx 7/8? Is it stuff that all officials may score similarly on or get the maximum score from? If so, then isn't this last bit what separates the officials and makes the difference in the selections for postseason?

Illinois has a 40 point rating system with only 5 points dedicated to ratings from coaches (combined with certified official's ratings). For example I bet in the past week I will receive more certified official's ratings than coach's ratings. Things like rankings, Top 15 percentile and test scores make up that rating. And if you are worried about one coach that you might not see again for 2 years then in my opinion you are worrying too much. I received about 70 ratings last year in Boy's basketball alone. The percentile involves a 2 year cycle so you can add about another 50 ratings the year before. And our rating system is based on the more ratings you get. For example if an official gets 5, number 1 ratings for the year is not going to be as well off as someone gets 50 number 3 ratings. So I want the coaches to rate me even if they give me what is called a bad rating.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Of course, I don't know that specifics of Illinois and really don't want to, but the logic of this argument would apply to anywhere that used coaches' ratings as a part of the officials ranking. One must examine closely how much of an impact it has, even if it is only a small percentage. That small number could be the difference maker.

It might not apply if coaches ratings are the only area that get you post season assignments. In some areas the coaches pick the officials for the post season assignments (Texas Football is an example of this). My point was our system is not as ridged based on what a coach rates you. Making calls because a coach might be upset (around here) should not even be a factor in how you call the game or interact with a coach.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

For those other than Rut who may wish to grasp my point consider the following:
8 items make up an officials rating each is equal.
1. test score
2. appearance/fitness
3. mechanics
4. camp attendence
5. years of service
6. number of games worked
7. turnbacks (the fewer the better here)
8. peer rating/coach rating

Now let's further say that each official gets a score from 1-5 with five being the highest in each category and that there is a cut-off for what is need to earn a five. Say 90%+ on the exam, yes or no did you attend the 3-man camp that the assn puts on, 10+ years with the assn, 50+ HS V games worked during the year, turnback zero games, etc. So a number of officials max out the first seven categories and have a score of 35. Now let's pick a number of officals that do this--25, but the assn can only send 15 to the regional and state games, so they are going to send the top 15 by rating score. It follows that how the officials score in the final category (peer/coach rating) is the determining factor.

[JRutledge]

That is wonderful, but I was not trying to answer a question for all people. I was addressing only Illinois because it was specifically referenced.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

And I specifically wrote "those other than Rut", so I clearly wasn't addressing you. So why are you responding?

Oh yeah, the reading thing...

[Big2Cat]

The real problem this year, as I see it in Illinois, is that we are supposed to T up the coach with no warning when he is out of the box. I have not seen it happen yet. Anyone else?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The real problem this year, as I see it in Illinois, is that we are supposed to T up the coach with no warning when he is out of the box. I have not seen it happen yet. Anyone else?

Actually that is not true. The IHSA made a big deal out of if about 2 years ago and then they backed off of that strict interpretation. Kurt and Beth said that they need to have officials concentrating on floor and not be so quick to only T a coach because they were out of the box.

Peace

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually that is not true. The IHSA made a big deal out of if about 2 years ago and then they backed off of that strict interpretation. Kurt and Beth said that they need to have officials concentrating on floor and not be so quick to only T a coach because they were out of the box.

Peace

Well, then, my interpreter said something very different than your interpreter. It may or may not be true, but that is what we were told at our meeting.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Well, then, my interpreter said something very different than your interpreter. It may or may not be true, but that is what we were told at our meeting.

I do not know what it has to do with "My Interpreter." The person that made the comments was the sport's administrators of one of the gender's and he referenced the other sport's administrator. Also the Head Clinician of the State and Head Rules Interpreter made similar statements.

Now keep in mind, officials were being emailed from higher ups when observed by IHSA administrators when they did not follow this procedure about 2 years ago when officials did not enforce this strict policy for the coaching box. Ever since I heard the "back off" comments, I have not heard a single person get similar contact or be condemned for a lack of enforcement. I think the IHSA realized that such a strict enforcement was not practical. It does not mean that they want coaches all over the court. I just think they realize we can handle it without the only option giving Ts all the time.

Peace

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Well, then, my interpreter said something very different than your interpreter. It may or may not be true, but that is what we were told at our meeting.

I got the same interpretation as Rut in the rules meeting I attended.

[Y2Koach]

There used to be a very annoying Varsity assistant coach in my league. Every time an opposing player would shoot a freethrow, he would go all the way down to the end of his bench (so he would be within peripheral sight of the FT shooter) and remind his players of everything they would possibly need to know at the the top of his lungs while waving his arms around pointing out different random things. "TOM, BOX OUT, BIG STEP, BOX OUT!! MIKE, YOU GOT SHOOTER!! FRED, WATCH YOUR FEET, DON'T CROSS THE LINE!!! BOX OUT BOX OUT BOX OUT!!!" If the player took 3 seconds to shoot it, he would yell and wave his arms for 3 seconds. If the shooter took 9 seconds to shoot, he would yell and wave for 9 seconds.

During a game a few years ago, the FT shooter actually bounced the ball back to the official and asked (loudly) "can you please tell him to shut the hell up?!?"

How would you guys handle this situation? warn the coach? T the coach? T the shooter? FT violation on the shooter? I just remember laughing and spilling nacho cheese on my scouting pad.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

There used to be a very annoying Varsity assistant coach in my league. Every time an opposing player would shoot a freethrow, he would go all the way down to the end of his bench (so he would be within peripheral sight of the FT shooter) and remind his players of everything they would possibly need to know at the the top of his lungs while waving his arms around pointing out different random things. "TOM, BOX OUT, BIG STEP, BOX OUT!! MIKE, YOU GOT SHOOTER!! FRED, WATCH YOUR FEET, DON'T CROSS THE LINE!!! BOX OUT BOX OUT BOX OUT!!!" If the player took 3 seconds to shoot it, he would yell and wave his arms for 3 seconds. If the shooter took 9 seconds to shoot, he would yell and wave for 9 seconds.

During a game a few years ago, the FT shooter actually bounced the ball back to the official and asked (loudly) "can you please tell him to shut the hell up?!?"

How would you guys handle this situation? warn the coach? T the coach? T the shooter? FT violation on the shooter? I just remember laughing and spilling nacho cheese on my scouting pad.

Well if he is a varsity assistant and he is off the bench, that is real easy I would tech him right away! Only the head coach can be off the bench....if it was the head coach doing something like this and it was obvious to me that he was doing it only to distract the shooter, I would instruct him to stop...you can't commit an unsporting act regardless of where you are on the floor, the coaches box doesn't protect him in this case. Granted it would require extreme judgement, but if it was that obvious, yeah I would do something about it...

[Adam]

Sounds like classic disconcertion to me.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sounds like classic disconcertion to me.

Gotta love an "adult" who decides he needs to disconcert a 17 year-old kid....not surprising though, I did a 6th grade tournament earlier this year in a TINY gym where the benches are actually on one end of the floor directly under one basket. There was one coach who actually started yelling "MAKE HIM GO LEFT, HE HAS NO LEFT, NO LEFT! YOU'RE IN HIS HEAD" probably 10 feet away from this poor sixth grader who obviously didn't have a left b/c he got the ball stolen I don't know how many times....I didn't have to do anything but give him "the look", he understood...it never ceases to amaze me though the depths to which some coaches will stoop. That's why I'm glad I will have been officiating for so long before I ever attempt to coach my own son, I've seen how bad it looks from the other side..