You make the call

[WhistlesAndStripes]

NFHS Rules.

A1 is making a designated spot throw-in from the sideline. After being handed the ball by the official, A1 loses her balance and falls foward, but the only thing that touches inbounds is the basketball, while she is still holding it with both hands. She then stands back upright, still standing out of bounds.

Is there a violation in this situation? Please cite rule references to support your position.

[Nevadaref]

Violation per 9-2-5 ... The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I'm not sure that one fits. She never came onto the court herself.

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure that one fits. She never came onto the court herself.

Well, how about 9-2-4 &/or 6...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure that one fits. She never came onto the court herself.

She was still holding/carrying the ball, and the ball touched in-bounds, right? Let's reverse it - the player is in-bounds, starts to fall over, and while still holding onto the ball, only the ball touches OOB. Would you say the player never went OOB herself?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Violation per 9-2-5 ... The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court.

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure that one fits. She never came onto the court herself.

Does the rule say that the player has to come onto the court? No, that's 9-2-1. Although the case book play 9.2.5 is the one about stepping inbounds.

9-2-5 really is about the location of the ball. The NFHS just picked their reference poorly.

Also, I could direct you to 9.2.2 Sit D, and have you infer that bouncing the ball INBOUNDS is not legal even though the player remains OOB because the case book play only specifies the opposite.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Well, how about 9-2-4 &/or 6...

I don't think that 9-2-4 doesn't apply, because even after doing this, she still has time to stand back up and throw the ball within the 5 seconds.

As for 9-2-6, it wouldn't apply because it refers to "the thrown ball," and at this point the ball has not been thrown.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Violation per 9-2-5 ... The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court.

In your subsequent post, you highleted THE BALL, but I think another key word in this part of the rule is the preceding word, CARRY. She did not CARRY the ball onto the floor.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

In your subsequent post, you highleted THE BALL, but I think another key word in this part of the rule is the preceding word, CARRY. She did not CARRY the ball onto the floor.

What is your definition of CARRY?

Here's the first thing that came up on webster's dot com:
1: to move while supporting : transport

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

She was still holding/carrying the ball, and the ball touched in-bounds, right? Let's reverse it - the player is in-bounds, starts to fall over, and while still holding onto the ball, only the ball touches OOB. Would you say the player never went OOB herself?

No, I would not say that. But the rules are very clear that when a ball is in play and inbounds, that if the ball OR the person goes OOB, then a violation has occurred. And for that matter, a person who is holding a ball, and steps OOB, has committed a violation.

Isn't there a something somewhere in the book that says that whatever status a player has, when that player is in contact with the ball, or even dribbling the ball, the ball has the same status? In which case, as long as the player is standing OOB, and no part of their body has touched Inbounds, them and the ball still have OOB status??

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I don't have my casebook handy, so I can't look up those case book plays at this time.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Isn't there a something somewhere in the book that says that whatever status a player has, when that player is in contact with the ball, or even dribbling the ball, the ball has the same status?

No, that is not accurate. The specifics of the rule differ for player status and ball status between inbounds/OOB and frontcourt/backcourt. You can't argue this stuff by analogy in these cases.

RULE 4, SECTION 4 BALL LOCATION, AT DISPOSAL
ART. 1 . . . A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the backcourt if either the ball or the player (either player if the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt.
ART. 2 . . . A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.

RULE 4, SECTION 35 PLAYER LOCATION
ART. 1 . . . The location of a player or nonplayer is determined by where the player is touching the floor as far as being:
a. Inbounds or out of bounds.
b. In the frontcourt or backcourt.
c. Outside (behind/beyond) or inside the three-point field-goal line.
ART. 2 . . . When a player is touching the backcourt, out of bounds or the three-point line, the player is located in backcourt, out of bounds,or inside the three-point line, respectively.


Rule 7 Out of Bounds and the Throw-in
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
ART. 1 . . . A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any object other than a player, on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, see 4-35.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds when it touches or is touched by:
a. A player who is out of bounds.
b. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
c. The supports or back of the backboard.
d. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.
NOTE: When the rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it passes over the backboard.


So if a player in standing in the backcourt was holding the ball and bent over and touched the ball to the floor in the frontcourt without releasing it, the ball would not gain frontcourt status. However if a player standing inbounds did this same action with one of the OOB boundary lines, then the ball would gain OOB status. (This exact play is depicted in the Simplified & Illustrated 9-9-1. When the player stands back up, the ruling is NO backcourt violation.)

It's just different and the situations don't always follow the same logic, so arguing in that manner is not productive.

This play would happen so infrequently that it isn't even worth a long discussion about.
Whistle it dead as a violation. The thrower shall release the ball on a pass directly into the court.

That didn't happen. TWEET....play on.

I don't have this years book but it is 7-6-1 from last year

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by PYRef

This play would happen so infrequently that it isn't even worth a long discussion about.
Whistle it dead as a violation. The thrower shall release the ball on a pass directly into the court.

That didn't happen. TWEET....play on.

I don't have this years book but it is 7-6-1 from last year

Unfortunately, by your logic 9.2.2 Sit D is illegal.

9.2.2 SITUATION D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area before making a throw-in. RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

That's clearly not the case. One must understand that 9-2-2 (the throw-in provision basically amounting to what you posted above) only refers to the throw-in pass, not something done prior to that.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

OK, I found something in Rule 7, and when I returned to post, I see that you have already cited the rule, so I will cut and highlight what's relevant and we can discuss.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Rule 7 Out of Bounds and the Throw-in
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
ART. 1 . . . A player is out of bounds when he/she touches the floor, or any object other than a player, on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, see 4-35.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds when it touches or is touched by:
a. A player who is out of bounds.
b. Any other person, the floor, or any object on or outside a boundary.
c. The supports or back of the backboard.
d. The ceiling, overhead equipment or supports.
NOTE: When the rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it passes over the backboard.

SO, based on the highlighted sections above, it would seem to me that the ball is still out of bounds because it is still being touched by a player who is out of bounds.