Shot clock reset question

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ok, I've been doing some more thinking about this. And you're correct, that in the above situation, we would NOT reset the shot clock. We have an explicit exception for a held ball DURING THE THROW-IN.

But how about this? A1 releases the throw-in pass. It is deflected by B1, but neither team secures control. A2 and B2 simultaneously cause a held ball. The possession arrow favors Team A.

As our NFHS case plays for '07 make clear, the throw-in ends when the ball is deflected by B1. So now, in my play, we have a held ball when neither team is in control -- and it's NOT during a throw-in.

In this case, in high school only, I believe we should have a reset of the shot clock.

What do you think?

If the play occurred during an NCAA game would one reset the shot clock?

The problem that you are having is that you are attempting to apply NCAA rules for the shot clock to the HS environment which does not match up with the NCAA rule set. In other words, I would say that one should focus upon the action and rule accordingly, not the fact that there may be a contradictory NFHS rule. If the shot clock would reset in an NCAA game, I say reset it in a HS game. If the play would not cause a reset in an NCAA game, then leave it alone in a HS game.

In summation, importing the NCAA shot clock rules to the NFHS game is impossible because not everything will matchup properly.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem that you are having is that you are attempting to apply NCAA rules for the shot clock to the HS environment which does not match up with the NCAA rule set.

I realize that. I've acknowledged that reality several times already in this thread. It's not really my problem, however. It's the problem of any state that is trying to implement a shot clock while otherwise using NFHS rules.

I'm simply taking a situation and applying the NCAA shot clock rule AND the NFHS rule. No team control + not during a throw-in + held ball = reset the shot clock. That is explicit in the NCAA rules. Throw-in has ended + no player has secured control = no team control. That is explicit in NFHS rules. So what should we now do?

If the shot clock would reset in an NCAA game, I say reset it in a HS game. If the play would not cause a reset in an NCAA game, then leave it alone in a HS game.

Ok, but then you have to deliberately set aside either the shot clock rules of the NCAA or the team control rules of the NFHS. I'm not a big fan of deliberately setting aside explicit rules.

Again, I'm not trying to tell anybody how "it has to be". Each state can use whatever shot clock rules it wants to. But my guess is that most states using the shot clock simply say, "use NFHS rules, but apply the NCAA shot clock rules". In that case, you have to know what the heck the rules are. And it doesn't hurt to go through this kind of exercise ahead of time to figure out just where the two rulesets don't quite mesh.

In any case, I asked for thoughts and I got them. So thank you. I think, however, that I would be justified in resetting the shot clock in the situation that I outlined.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I realize that. I've acknowledged that reality several times already in this thread. It's not really my problem, however. It's the problem of any state that is trying to implement a shot clock while otherwise using NFHS rules.

Yep, I agree.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'm simply taking a situation and applying the NCAA shot clock rule AND the NFHS rule.

One cannot do that and expect a logical outcome. The two were simply not written to fit together. Doing that is equivalent to trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

No team control + not during a throw-in + held ball = reset the shot clock. That is explicit in the NCAA rules. Throw-in has ended + no player has secured control = no team control. That is explicit in NFHS rules. So what should we now do?

This is exactly the kind of unresolvable paradox that arises when one mixes rule sets.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ok, but then you have to deliberately set aside either the shot clock rules of the NCAA or the team control rules of the NFHS. I'm not a big fan of deliberately setting aside explicit rules.

Neither am I and I think that this is the main reason why most states don't use a shot clock in HS. If you are stuck in a situation that does, then you have to do your best. I would probably apply the NCAA shot clock rules to shot clock situations and not worry about any conflicts with other HS rules that do not pertain to the shot clock.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Again, I'm not trying to tell anybody how "it has to be". Each state can use whatever shot clock rules it wants to. But my guess is that most states using the shot clock simply say, "use NFHS rules, but apply the NCAA shot clock rules".

Agreed. It is not our place. Each state will make their own decision. It is just unfortunate that some will state as you say without realizing that the two pieces cannot be made to fit into the same puzzle.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In that case, you have to know what the heck the rules are. And it doesn't hurt to go through this kind of exercise ahead of time to figure out just where the two rulesets don't quite mesh.

Preparation is always the key. One should always walk into a situation knowing what to do should such and such occur.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In any case, I asked for thoughts and I got them. So thank you. I think, however, that I would be justified in resetting the shot clock in the situation that I outlined.

Happy to be your study partner, but I wouldn't reset in that situation. I don't believe that is the intent of the rule.

[cmcramer]

When To Reset
Floor violations except kicking
Intentionally kicked ball: reset to 15 if under 15; otherwise leave what is on clock, per league or State Association


Could someone from New York State tell me if this is correct for our high schools? Thanks!

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

When To Reset
Floor violations except kicking
Intentionally kicked ball: reset to 15 if under 15; otherwise leave what is on clock, per league or State Association


Could someone from New York State tell me if this is correct for our high schools? Thanks!

For girls, yes.

For boys, I don't know. (They do use a shot clock for NYS boys.)