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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:33pm
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in the (unlikely?) event the defense is called for a violation for excessively swinging the elbows, would the shot clock be reset? I'm thinking it should be.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 01:06pm
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Yes. Any violation is a shot clock reset criteria. It is basically the same as if a defender kicked the ball. I think it helps if you consider the rationale behind when we reset. We don't penalize a defender for good defense (blocked shot / held ball) however kciking and elbows are written in stone infractions so the shot clock gets the reset

[Edited by Wearin' Stripes on Dec 8th, 2004 at 01:08 PM]
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 01:07pm
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Mark:

I think you are correct because this is a floor violation, just like a "kicked ball" requires a reset (even though ball stays with same team). Use the "circling finger over head" signal for the reset. See, I told you shot clocks are a pain in the neck.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mdray
in the (unlikely?) event the defense is called for a violation for excessively swinging the elbows, would the shot clock be reset? I'm thinking it should be.
Can you call a violation on the defense for this? I know you can call a violation on the offense for it but on the defense wouldn't it have to be a foul, flagrant foul, or a no call?
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 07:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by oc

Can you call a violation on the defense for this? I know you can call a violation on the offense for it but on the defense wouldn't it have to be a foul, flagrant foul, or a no call? [/B]
Can there be a foul or a flagrant foul without contact?

A no call, player swings his elbows at an opponent?

I'm thinking unsportsman-like conduct. T

Reset the clock!

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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 08:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wearin' Stripes
Yes. Any violation is a shot clock reset criteria.
Not literally true. If B1 knocks the ball out of A1's hands and out of bounds, the shot clock does not reset. Causing the ball to go out of bounds is a violation.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wearin' Stripes
Any violation is a shot clock reset criteria.

Be very careful with this (hint - you may want to re-read rule 9).
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 10:50pm
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[QUOTE

Can you call a violation on the defense for this? I know you can call a violation on the offense for it but on the defense wouldn't it have to be a foul, flagrant foul, or a no call? [/B][/QUOTE]

Since when does "swinging elbows" violation differ between offense and defense? If no contact = violation.
If there is contact = T foul. Doesn't matter which team commits the action. Reset the clock (this is NOT the same as a ball being batted out of bounds, which is not a violation, per se).
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Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 08:57am
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Quote:
Originally posted by nine01c
[QUOTE

Can you call a violation on the defense for this? I know you can call a violation on the offense for it but on the defense wouldn't it have to be a foul, flagrant foul, or a no call?
Since when does "swinging elbows" violation differ between offense and defense? If no contact = violation.
If there is contact = T foul. Doesn't matter which team commits the action. Reset the clock (this is NOT the same as a ball being batted out of bounds, which is not a violation, per se). [/B][/QUOTE]

1) If it's contact during a live ball, then it's a personal foul (might be intentional or flagrant), not a T.

2) "Causing the ball to go OOB" is a violation -- see 9- 3 (both FED and NCAA). It's just an "exception" to the shot-clock rule (NCAA 2-13.7a, instead of 2-13.6e)
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Old Thu Dec 09, 2004, 10:17am
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OOPS, my bad. Not a T (I was getting confused with when they wanted us to call a T on swinging elbows even with no contact). Also, on the "out of bounds" violation (I know it's a violation) I meant the same thing, just didn't word it as well as you did (exception to shot clock reset).

Thanks for the clarification.
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Old Tue Dec 14, 2004, 03:28am
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Punching the ball with a fist is another violation that could be committed by the defense, and would result in a shot clock reset.
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