What's the call - technicals at the end of the game

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

He seems to think that removing a jersey falls under the same rule as pulling a jersey out of the shorts in an emotional display.
Not surprisingly he is incorrect. There are separate rules which apply to each of these actions.
The removal of a jersey is covered by 3-4-15, 10-3-7h, and 10-4-1h. While the unsporting display of emotionally pulling the shirt out of the shorts is governed by 10-3-7a and 10-4-1e. In the latter case it is the gesture indicating resentment, objection, or disgust that is of importance.


That is certainly a discretionary area and judgment is required in deciding whether or not a technical foul should be assessed. However, in the former case, it is crystal clear that the jersey has either been physically removed or it hasn't. No judgment is required and the reason why is of no consequence. The rule simply applies under all circumstances.
Two completely different situations.

The OP described two Ts given for removing the jersey to either taunt or to celebrate immediately after the game was over. I do not even know why you even are talking about Rule 3-4-15 (even though the rule references the penalties for a T), because that is not even what we are talking about here. So how can anyone get the two confused when one is talking about penalizing a T and the other is mainly talking about not having a jersey properly tucked in? Either you did not read this thread or you are smoking some really good stuff that has you “tweeking” right now.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2. Ask him how many state championship games he has worked.

I have not worked a state final either. My ultimate success as an official is not working a state final in basketball. Working a state final in many cases is not about who the best official is, but who has been around the longest. Danny Crawford is from my state lives a town over from where I live and he has never worked a State Final either. I am sure he is doing OK.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have not worked a state final either. My ultimate success as an official is not working a state final in basketball. Working a state final in many cases is not about who the best official is, but who has been around the longest. Danny Crawford is from my state lives a town over from where I live and he has never worked a State Final either. I am sure he is doing OK.

1. What to you mean by either? Are you implying something about someone else?

2. So you think that longevity is the controlling factor? You state that with such certainty. How could anyone doubt it?

3. Danny Crawford works for the NBA. Although I'm not certain of the NBA regulations, it seems likely that he is not allowed to officiate HS games. So bringing up that name does not make a good point.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The OP described two Ts given for removing the jersey to either taunt or to celebrate immediately after the game was over. I do not even know why you even are talking about Rule 3-4-15 (even though the rule references the penalties for a T), because that is not even what we are talking about here. So how can anyone get the two confused when one is talking about penalizing a T and the other is mainly talking about not having a jersey properly tucked in? Either you did not read this thread or you are smoking some really good stuff that has you “tweeking” right now.

There you go again showing your below average reading skills.

The OP wrote

Originally Posted by imgrund

In celebration, two players from team A removed their jerseys. The refs called two technical fouls.

The post doesn't mention anything about taunting. You read that into there yourself. It seems more logical to believe that the technical fouls were for simply removing the shirts, not for taunting at all.

Now why would I cite 3-4-15? How about because that rule says, "A team member shall not remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt in the visual confines of the playing area. See 10-3-7h and 10-4-1h for penalty."

Notice that the penalty for this part of the rule is a technical foul as stated in the two included references. The first part is merely the rule requiring the jersey to be worn tucked into the shorts and the penalty is that the player shall be directed to leave the game. Simply having the jersey out, or even pulling it out in a non-unsporting manner, does not result in a technical foul, rather just being sent out of the game. Casebook play 3.4.15 Sit C tells us exactly that. On the other hand if the shirt is pulled out in an unsporting manner, it is the unsporting gesture or manner that results in a T, not the jersey being out of the shorts, and that is due to a different rule (10-3-7a) as I've previously posted, but you failed to comprehend that.

This seems so clear to everyone else so why are you struggling with it? Oh that's right, reading is fundamental.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3. Danny Crawford works for the NBA. Although I'm not certain of the NBA regulations, it seems likely that he is not allowed to officiate HS games. So bringing up that name does not make a good point.

Danny Crawford started working games in HS in the very area that I currently live. He also belonged to an association that I have current membership when he worked HS. And I could include the very same thing with three NFL officials that belong to an association and multiple D1 officials that currently belong to associations I hold membership. They all started working HS ball and in some cases JH and rec. ball or any other youth ball. Getting to the NBA does not happen overnight. Usually most of them worked there way through the ranks before the NBA picked them up.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Nevada,

Do what you want to do. But you have not answered my question (which I do not expect you to answer BTW, I know better). You did not answer about calling other Ts without any consideration to the situation and without consideration to a philosophy. You accused me and a couple of others of picking and choosing rules, but you did not answer a basic question. Of course you will not answer the question because you will have to admit that you do not do that. I give you more credit than that. I have had people that sit on NF Committees (in basketball and other sports) say things in conversation about using common sense on having good philosophies outside of a strict rule. Why do you know more than them? They actually have sat on the NF Committee or have a say in creating rules and we are to listen to you only?

Peace

[Nevadaref]

There you go again attempting to change the point under discussion. This tactic isn't going to work. Let's stay on point here.

Philosophies for giving Ts is a totally different discussion that should take place in a totally different thread. Go start one if you like.

This topic is about applying a very clear rule by the NFHS committee. Again that rule is that removing the shirt/pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area is a technical foul. Period, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The NFHS committee clearly states that this rule applies in all situations and circumstances.

It is you who doesn't like the rule and is trying to evade enforcing it due to your personal philosophy. Why do YOU feel that you know better than the NFHS committee?

Riddle me that, Batman.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Danny Crawford started working games in HS in the very area that I currently live. He also belonged to an association that I have current membership when he worked HS. And I could include the very same thing with three NFL officials that belong to an association and multiple D1 officials that currently belong to associations I hold membership. They all started working HS ball and in some cases JH and rec. ball or any other youth ball. Getting to the NBA does not happen overnight. Usually most of them worked there way through the ranks before the NBA picked them up.

Yeah, what's your point? If they left the HS ranks early enough to enter the pro training system and improved greatly thereafter, it is logical that they would have missed out on working HS State Finals. But you on the other hand are still there working HS games. So what's your excuse?