The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 02:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
One thread leads to another

The thread about the person guarding closely through out the game, even during stoppages got me thinking about the "rules for guarding" that might apply during stoppages. If Team A wanted to, could they line up across the floor as soon as the whistle blew and prevent Team B from getting to te other end by just stepping in front of them so that they couldn't get through?

More practically speaking, before the ball is live on a throw-in, I see some jockeying for position. What are the rules for that kind of thing? No contact, obviously, but otherwise, anyone is entitled to any spot on the floor as long as they're there first legally? So two players could set a screen, and just block someone into a corner or something, as long as there's no contact?

I know this sounds sort of hostile, or sarcastic, but I"m not. Just kinda asking about something that I guess I've never really understood.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 02:41pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
I know this sounds sort of hostile, or sarcastic, but I"m not. Just kinda asking about something that I guess I've never really understood.
You need to understand this b...eecause.......?????

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 02:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
You need to understand this b...eecause.......?????
....because in a few months I'm going to get up off this sickbed and be out reffing again, and I"ll need to know how to handle these sorts of situations if they arise. It appears as though my judgments and opinions aren't in line with what others think, so I need to adjust my own thinking. I"m trying to pick the brains of you and tohers, and get myself more into the "right" frame of mind.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 03:02pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
....because in a few months I'm going to get up off this sickbed and be out reffing again, and I"ll need to know how to handle these sorts of situations if they arise.
I hope you are OK but I can kind of relate to how your mind is likely working. I recently had an injury that took me out from working games and I could not even work any scrimmages most of this week and I could not get myself ready for the season as I would like. Your mind starts thinking about things you really do not need to focus on if you are not careful.

I think officiating is about concentrating on things that are realistic and getting good and calling or dealing with things that are much more realistic. I know in all the time I have worked and all the games I have officiated, I have never seen a player able to stay with someone on that level as was described in the previous post. At least not without some contact I have never seen such a thing. Officials should be concentrating on basic fouls and basic violations. To me to call anything is trying to be a maverick with the rules so that you can prove you know something. This is not solid officiating just to call something because you want everyone to get along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
It appears as though my judgments and opinions aren't in line with what others think, so I need to adjust my own thinking. I"m trying to pick the brains of you and tohers, and get myself more into the "right" frame of mind.
If that is the case, you need to ask yourself why that is? I might have a reason that I think that is the case, but I have not lived your officiating experiences.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 03:07pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
More practically speaking, before the ball is live on a throw-in, I see some jockeying for position. What are the rules for that kind of thing? No contact, obviously, but otherwise, anyone is entitled to any spot on the floor as long as they're there first legally? So two players could set a screen, and just block someone into a corner or something, as long as there's no contact?
7-6-5: Teammates shall not occupy adjacent positions which are parallel to and within 3 feet of the boundary line if an opponent desires one of the positions.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 03:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I hope you are OK but I can kind of relate to how your mind is likely working. I recently had an injury that took me out from working games and I could not even work any scrimmages most of this week and I could not get myself ready for the season as I would like. Your mind starts thinking about things you really do not need to focus on if you are not careful.
LOL, yea, maybe my fevered brain is a little off track?? It's possible that there are others on this board who might see your point!

There's probably an aspect of that. I'm not going to be reffing much this season, and I'm having the dt's about it. I'm also using this board as a sort of distraction from the various "pains" and "struggles". Okay, I"ll just back off and quit listening to the voices.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 03:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,801
I'm not reffing any games this year, and I've already started having withdrawal symptoms.

That said, I don't know that my brain has gone this far.
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 18, 2007, 03:30pm
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Maybe we should have an injury thread. I'm battling an injury right now too. If I can make it past Tuesday I have to take a trip for work for two weeks. I will be able to work out, stretch and rest the whole time. I have to get back at it as soon as I get back home.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 19, 2007, 04:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
7-6-5: Teammates shall not occupy adjacent positions which are parallel to and within 3 feet of the boundary line if an opponent desires one of the positions.
That is the only rule of which I know that would apply to such situations. If the players aren't infringing upon that one, then there is nothing for you to do but observe the subsequent action.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 19, 2007, 10:22am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
...officiating is about concentrating on things that are realistic and getting good and calling or dealing with things that are much more realistic. ... Officials should be concentrating on basic fouls and basic violations. To me to call anything is trying to be a maverick with the rules so that you can prove you know something. This is not solid officiating just to call something because you want everyone to get along.
Peace
Following that advice right there will get an official really close to where they need to be. Great post!
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 19, 2007, 05:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
7-6-5: Teammates shall not occupy adjacent positions which are parallel to and within 3 feet of the boundary line if an opponent desires one of the positions.
No good....there's no such thing as parallel to a corner. The player would need to be aligned parallel to either one line or the other...which would leave an escape out the other side.

You're more likely to see this parallel alignment by the offensive team....not by defenders
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 19, 2007, 05:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
If Team A wanted to, could they line up across the floor as soon as the whistle blew and prevent Team B from getting to te other end by just stepping in front of them so that they couldn't get through?

More practically speaking, before the ball is live on a throw-in, I see some jockeying for position. What are the rules for that kind of thing? No contact, obviously, but otherwise, anyone is entitled to any spot on the floor as long as they're there first legally? So two players could set a screen, and just block someone into a corner or something, as long as there's no contact?
If this ACTUALLY happened, I would first try to stop laughing, then decide whether I wanted to continue officiating this game...er...whatever you call this (because it will certainly not be a game of basketball at that point), then decide whether I would ever work another game for the assignor who sent me to work this......then....I would use the Resuming Play Procedure...and call a foul on the first defender from Team A that contacted Team B - once Team B realizes I've started my 5-count they will try to get down the floor and will definitely be contacted by Team A. I'll keep doing this until Team A stops acting like idiots. (think Billy Crystal playing an NBA ref in "Forget Paris"...giving T's to everyone he sees and being taken away in an ambulance for "safety").

I can't believe I actually wasted two minutes of my life thinking about and replying to this post.....SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 19, 2007, 08:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
...officiating is about concentrating on things that are realistic and getting good and calling or dealing with things that are much more realistic. ... Officials should be concentrating on basic fouls and basic violations. To me to call anything is trying to be a maverick with the rules so that you can prove you know something. This is not solid officiating just to call something because you want everyone to get along.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Following that advice right there will get an official really close to where they need to be. Great post!
While one should concentrate on the basics, I wouldn't discount the value of being prepared for the oddball situations. Experience is simply having seen the strange situations before. One can also take steps through discussion and research to be prepared should an uncommon play arise. It is always better to be prepared and know what to do, rather than having to make up something on the spot.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 08:47am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
...officiating is about concentrating on things that are realistic and getting good and calling or dealing with things that are much more realistic. ... Officials should be concentrating on basic fouls and basic violations. To me to call anything is trying to be a maverick with the rules so that you can prove you know something. This is not solid officiating just to call something because you want everyone to get along.





While one should concentrate on the basics, I wouldn't discount the value of being prepared for the oddball situations. Experience is simply having seen the strange situations before. One can also take steps through discussion and research to be prepared should an uncommon play arise. It is always better to be prepared and know what to do, rather than having to make up something on the spot.
I would also put money on this: many officials who argue the most about oddball situations will end up in a game where they do something wrong because they are so worried about the fine print. I've just seen it too many times; I've seen guys get fired because their games always included a controversial call. In the DC area these officials are referred to officials who put **** into the game.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 20, 2007, 10:40am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
I would also put money on this: many officials who argue the most about oddball situations will end up in a game where they do something wrong because they are so worried about the fine print. I've just seen it too many times; I've seen guys get fired because their games always included a controversial call. In the DC area these officials are referred to officials who put **** into the game.
I completely agree. And this is why I feel many officials never advance or never get where they want to be because they are so concerned with what the rulebook says. People always want to blame the politics or the system instead of themselves for trying to be so precise they forget to call the obvious situation right in front of them.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
? on leads position, 3 person crew roadking Basketball 9 Thu Jun 30, 2005 07:36pm
Unbelievable shot leads to MN 4A title ShadowStripes Basketball 14 Wed Mar 23, 2005 05:27pm
Mick's huh Thread {worthy of separate thread} Stat-Man Basketball 1 Sun Nov 07, 2004 06:28pm
Misaplication leads to official "communicating" with newspaper tnroundballref Football 11 Fri Oct 22, 2004 04:29pm
No call leads to out? WestMichBlue Softball 27 Fri Jul 23, 2004 01:34pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1