Any info on Kansas interp on standing coaches?

[SamIAm]

Did anyone get an answer to the Kansas interp on the standing coaches question?

[Jurassic Referee]

Nope. No replies to e-mails. Nothing to say either way whether K-ref was right or not. Based on the majority of his posts though.....

[Splute]

Even the UIL rulings in Texas specifically state that "the coach may stand, sit or kneel in the coaches box".... These rulings are then enforced by TASO...... seemed really odd that Kansas would be so different. I can post the link if needed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

Even the UIL rulings in Texas specifically state that "the coach may stand, sit or kneel in the coaches box".... These rulings are then enforced by TASO...... seemed really odd that Kansas would be so different. I can post the link if needed.

The wording from the website has already been posted. Coaches apparently do have to stand in Kansas. No kneeling allowed. What wasn't clear was whether a coach could stand in his box if he/she wasn't coaching(talking) but just standing there, quietly watching the game. That would be different. Let's give a "T" to a coach for not saying anything. That would be right up there with saying "That's a technical foul for kneeling in the coaching box."

[Splute]

aahhhh, that clears it up. Thanks.

[Mark Padgett]

I think their rule is that coaches must stand but cannot dunk during pregame unless kneeling.

[Adam]

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

I've moved from Kansas (this summer), so I don't know about any new interps, but in the past couple years bench decorum has been emphasized every year by the state, but I've never been given any instruction other than "in order to be standing, the coach needs to be coaching." They've encouraged coaches to know that, as well, but I was never told to T a coach if they were just standing there. My instruction was always to use the rules to my advantage if having a problem with a coach, but short of that just to make sure they stay in the box.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I've moved from Kansas (this summer), so I don't know about any new interps, but in the past couple years bench decorum has been emphasized every year by the state, but I've never been given any instruction other than "in order to be standing, the coach needs to be coaching." They've encouraged coaches to know that, as well, but I was never told to T a coach if they were just standing there. My instruction was always to use the rules to my advantage if having a problem with a coach, but short of that just to make sure they stay in the box.

In most other states, anyway, this means they can't stand up to b!tch about the officiating. Thanks.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

[chartrusepengui]

Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated.

Since they can't squat, I wonder if any bright coach has just planted his fanny on the floor within his box.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

Here's the history:

Tech on Coach situation

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching (and it's dangerous for the refs). Yelling at me is not coaching.

case 10.5.1.E: last sentence. "...if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional coaching box privileges."

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

Again, there is some leniency, but if the rule was intended that the head coach could remain standing the entire game, the rule would state, "While in the confines of the coaching box, the head coach may remain standing during all live ball situations." It doesn't. It states "for the purpose of coaching".

That poster then posted the name, address and phone number of the Kansas grand poobah of basketball. Somebody has emailed said poobah, and the original poster of this thread is asking if the poobah has answered.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Old news, MTD. We've already seen that.

The poster has been banned, so he's not likely to respond.

Wasn't devdog69 from Kansas?

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:

...

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

I don't know why you ask or how it could effect the query, but here it goes:
I was born November 5th, 1963, at Susan B. Allen hospital in El Dorado, KS (Butler County). Dr. James Barber was the attending physian. I was the fourth child, but the third surviving child as my mothers first child was still-born. I understand it was a blustery day. I lived in and around Augusta, KS until I was 5 years old. Our family then established a permanent residence 3 miles west of Augusta. I attended Garfield elementary in KG and 1st grade, then switched to Robinson elementary through 6th grade. I was fairly athletic and saw varsity action as a sophmore in basketball and football as an Augusta Oriole. I excelled in track where I competed in the 110m and 330m hurdling events. I finished 6th at the state track meet in 110m HH my junior year, then 3rd in the 330m hurdles my senior year, both at the 5a level. I was involved in a motorcycling accident the summer after highschool and never got tocompete in college athletics. I graduated from Emporia State in 1986. Moved to the Dallas area in 1987. Met an Irving, Texas girl in 1988 and married her in 1990. We have 2 children, now 12 and 7 and live in a comfy, ranch style house with a fire place.

I don't think you really gave us your history.

...um...Sam...I don't think he was asking about your personal history.
But it was nice reading.