Any info on Kansas interp on standing coaches?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

[chartrusepengui]

Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated.

Since they can't squat, I wonder if any bright coach has just planted his fanny on the floor within his box.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

Here's the history:

Tech on Coach situation

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching (and it's dangerous for the refs). Yelling at me is not coaching.

case 10.5.1.E: last sentence. "...if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional coaching box privileges."

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

Again, there is some leniency, but if the rule was intended that the head coach could remain standing the entire game, the rule would state, "While in the confines of the coaching box, the head coach may remain standing during all live ball situations." It doesn't. It states "for the purpose of coaching".

That poster then posted the name, address and phone number of the Kansas grand poobah of basketball. Somebody has emailed said poobah, and the original poster of this thread is asking if the poobah has answered.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Old news, MTD. We've already seen that.

The poster has been banned, so he's not likely to respond.

Wasn't devdog69 from Kansas?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The poster has been banned, so he's not likely to respond.

I just looked at the other thread and KSref07 is listed as a Registered User, not "In Time Out". So maybe he's been allowed back in. Who knows if he'll actually come back or not.

Scrapper, KSRef07 isn't even on the Members List anymore.
Maybe it just shows that way in the old posts?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by PYRef

Scrapper, KSRef07 isn't even on the Members List anymore.
Maybe it just shows that way in the old posts?

I didn't check the members list. I'm sure you're right.

[Adam]

Wow, from timeout to banned in one swoop? That's unusual. Wonder if Francine emailed Brad directly?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, from timeout to banned in one swoop? That's unusual. Wonder if Francine emailed Brad directly?

Not banned. JR and a few others that said "he's not in the member list" are wrong as usual. Just found better things to do than post 6.4 times a day since 2002 like JR. Most of you guys were nice, but the few folks that got personal and close-minded made it not enjoyable. The nit-picking of errors, pouncing on generalizations as if they were scientific statements, etc., the attempt to silence those in disagreement by telling them not to tell "us" what to post (which is telling me what I should post), just got to be too much. Life is too short. Officiating is more about application of the rules than the wording of the rules and this is a concept JR and a few others fail to realize. In application there comes individual judgment - not black and white.

I see Francine has not replied but another ref confirmed. Good to see JR still had to take a potshot at me rather than Man-up and apologize.

BTW, my 300 games a year of which 60% are varsity level - my bad - I did not mean they were interscholastic V games - just V level.

This is my last time visiting. For all the good guys, thanks for the positive private messages. For all the newbies, beware of the answers you get. For the record,
#24 = False
#34 = True
#36 = False

Adios

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

This is my last time visiting.

On behalf of basketball officials everywhere, I thank you.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

BTW, my 300 games a year of which 60% are varsity level - my bad - I did not mean they were interscholastic V games - just V level.

At least he had the integrity to be honest about the games he works...not pretending that they are something they're not.

If an official works a rec league with 17/18 year-olds, that doesn't make him a varsity ref any more than working 20/21 year-olds makes someone a college ref!

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:

...

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

I don't know why you ask or how it could effect the query, but here it goes:
I was born November 5th, 1963, at Susan B. Allen hospital in El Dorado, KS (Butler County). Dr. James Barber was the attending physian. I was the fourth child, but the third surviving child as my mothers first child was still-born. I understand it was a blustery day. I lived in and around Augusta, KS until I was 5 years old. Our family then established a permanent residence 3 miles west of Augusta. I attended Garfield elementary in KG and 1st grade, then switched to Robinson elementary through 6th grade. I was fairly athletic and saw varsity action as a sophmore in basketball and football as an Augusta Oriole. I excelled in track where I competed in the 110m and 330m hurdling events. I finished 6th at the state track meet in 110m HH my junior year, then 3rd in the 330m hurdles my senior year, both at the 5a level. I was involved in a motorcycling accident the summer after highschool and never got tocompete in college athletics. I graduated from Emporia State in 1986. Moved to the Dallas area in 1987. Met an Irving, Texas girl in 1988 and married her in 1990. We have 2 children, now 12 and 7 and live in a comfy, ranch style house with a fire place.

I don't think you really gave us your history.

...um...Sam...I don't think he was asking about your personal history.
But it was nice reading.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I don't know why you ask or how it could effect the query, but here it goes:
I was born November 5th, 1963, at Susan B. Allen hospital in El Dorado, KS (Butler County). Dr. James Barber was the attending physian. {snip} We have 2 children, now 12 and 7 and live in a comfy, ranch style house with a fire place.

Best post of both threads.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Sam, as edited by JugglingReferee

Dr. James Barber was the attending physian. {snip} We have 2 children, now 12 and 7 and live in a comfy, ranch style house with a fire place.

I'm sure Sam and the doctor are very happy together.