Any info on Kansas interp on standing coaches?

[Splute]

aahhhh, that clears it up. Thanks.

[Mark Padgett]

I think their rule is that coaches must stand but cannot dunk during pregame unless kneeling.

[Adam]

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

I've moved from Kansas (this summer), so I don't know about any new interps, but in the past couple years bench decorum has been emphasized every year by the state, but I've never been given any instruction other than "in order to be standing, the coach needs to be coaching." They've encouraged coaches to know that, as well, but I was never told to T a coach if they were just standing there. My instruction was always to use the rules to my advantage if having a problem with a coach, but short of that just to make sure they stay in the box.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I've moved from Kansas (this summer), so I don't know about any new interps, but in the past couple years bench decorum has been emphasized every year by the state, but I've never been given any instruction other than "in order to be standing, the coach needs to be coaching." They've encouraged coaches to know that, as well, but I was never told to T a coach if they were just standing there. My instruction was always to use the rules to my advantage if having a problem with a coach, but short of that just to make sure they stay in the box.

In most other states, anyway, this means they can't stand up to b!tch about the officiating. Thanks.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

[chartrusepengui]

Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated.

Since they can't squat, I wonder if any bright coach has just planted his fanny on the floor within his box.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

Here's the history:

Tech on Coach situation

10.5.1: "...for the purpose of coaching his team." Standing silent is not coaching. Kneeling and watching the play is not coaching (and it's dangerous for the refs). Yelling at me is not coaching.

case 10.5.1.E: last sentence. "...if he/she wishes to stand when permitted under the optional coaching box privileges."

Furthermore, The Kansas State HS Activities Association announcements publication states "The head coach may: 1) Stand to instruct (coach) then, 2) sit down, 3) not kneel, squat, pace, or stand during a live ball."

Again, there is some leniency, but if the rule was intended that the head coach could remain standing the entire game, the rule would state, "While in the confines of the coaching box, the head coach may remain standing during all live ball situations." It doesn't. It states "for the purpose of coaching".

That poster then posted the name, address and phone number of the Kansas grand poobah of basketball. Somebody has emailed said poobah, and the original poster of this thread is asking if the poobah has answered.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:


Coaching Box
In order for a coach to use the coaching box they must begin the game by sitting where the box is located. A coach is not required to use the coaching box, but if the coach begins the game by sitting somewhere other than where the box is located, he/she may not use the box privileges any time during the game. The coach must begin the game in a position within the box if he/she wishes to stand when permitted. (NFHS Casebook page 83; 10-5-1 Situation E) Coaches may not squat in the box, they may stand to coach and then be seated. . The coaching box should be marked properly before a game begins, even if that means with athletic tape. The Basketball Manual has proper markings illustrated on page 17.

A point of emphasis this year from the NFHS and KSHSAA is proper use and enforcement of the six foot (6’) coaching box. Coaches must stay within the coaching box. Wandering coaches create problems including:

Distinct advantage gained by ability to better communicate with teams
Interferes with play
Distracting to players and officials
Perceived as an intimidation tactic toward officials and table personnel
Can incite inappropriate player, bench and spectator behavior
Coaches must remain in the box while coaching. Officials should warn the coach on the first offense of being out of the box “just coaching”. The second offense a technical foul should be assessed to the coach.


Based on the the page number in the Casebook Play reference and the noting of a six (6) foot coaching box, I am going to make and educated guess that this section of the Basketball Regulations was written for the 2005-06 season or earlier. And due to the fact that I am watching the 11pmEST news on the television, I do not feel like going up to the attic to confirm my educated guess, but I am positive the two references I mentioned are prior to the 2006-07 season.

The Casebook play listed in the Basketball Regulation above has not changed. The play number, the play itself, and the ruling in both last year's Casebook and this year's Casebook have the same as the one referenced in the Basketball Regulations. That leads us to NFHS R10-S5 which is the Head Coaches' Rule, and Article 1 states: "By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2, for the purpose of coaching his/her team." I highlighted, in red the essence of the rule; and that is there is no requirement that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. Furthermore, the NFHS has never made a ruling that the head coach must stand in order to utilize the coaching box. By rule, I do not know how the KansasHSAA can justify its interpretation of R1-S5-A1, because it cannot.

Old news, MTD. We've already seen that.

The poster has been banned, so he's not likely to respond.

Wasn't devdog69 from Kansas?

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those don't know I was born in Lawrence, KS, and my mother was born and raised in Bashor, KS, and KU is her college alma mater. Having said that, I would like to request the poster who started this thread to give us some history of behind his query.

I went to the KansasHSAA's website and read the Basketball Regulations. And this is what the Regulations said concerning the Coaching Box:

...

Its time to go to bed. Night all.

MTD, Sr.

I don't know why you ask or how it could effect the query, but here it goes:
I was born November 5th, 1963, at Susan B. Allen hospital in El Dorado, KS (Butler County). Dr. James Barber was the attending physian. I was the fourth child, but the third surviving child as my mothers first child was still-born. I understand it was a blustery day. I lived in and around Augusta, KS until I was 5 years old. Our family then established a permanent residence 3 miles west of Augusta. I attended Garfield elementary in KG and 1st grade, then switched to Robinson elementary through 6th grade. I was fairly athletic and saw varsity action as a sophmore in basketball and football as an Augusta Oriole. I excelled in track where I competed in the 110m and 330m hurdling events. I finished 6th at the state track meet in 110m HH my junior year, then 3rd in the 330m hurdles my senior year, both at the 5a level. I was involved in a motorcycling accident the summer after highschool and never got tocompete in college athletics. I graduated from Emporia State in 1986. Moved to the Dallas area in 1987. Met an Irving, Texas girl in 1988 and married her in 1990. We have 2 children, now 12 and 7 and live in a comfy, ranch style house with a fire place.

I don't think you really gave us your history.

[rockchalk jhawk]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

The general consensus pounded into our heads every year at the annual rules meeting is this: coaches may stand up to coach (within the confines of their "box"), but once they are through with their "coaching" they must go back to their seat. Coaching in the state of Kansas (we have been instructed) does not include quietly standing, kneeling, or pacing about within or outside of the box.

That being said, the general practice when addressing the coaching box in the state of Kansas is "You don't bother me or biatch about my officiating and you can do headstands all day long in your box and I won't bother you."

Is it a little overbearing? Probably, but in past experience it is a great tool to use when coaches start to become a little too testy and have decided to stand in their box right on the sideline and snark at officials as they run up and down the court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk

The general consensus pounded into our heads every year at the annual rules meeting is this: coaches may stand up to coach (within the confines of their "box"), but once they are through with their "coaching" they must go back to their seat. Coaching in the state of Kansas (we have been instructed) does not include quietly standing, kneeling, or pacing about within or outside of the box.

That being said, the general practice when addressing the coaching box in the state of Kansas is "You don't bother me or biatch about my officiating and you can do headstands all day long in your box and I won't bother you."

Is it a little overbearing? Probably, but in past experience it is a great tool to use when coaches start to become a little too testy and have decided to stand in their box right on the sideline and snark at officials as they run up and down the court.

Thanks for the info, without the nonsense attached to it by the previous banned poster.

If that's the directive from the state, it has to be followed. In real life, if sounds like you're actually calling the box like most other states anyway. We all basically have the same tool available to us anyway. There's no provision anywhere in the rules that will allow any coach at any time to question calls or b!tch at us. It's simply up to each individual official as to what they want to put up with. Mileage certainly varies.

Thanks again. We can put that one to bed now(hopefully).

[SamIAm]

I don't remember writing a personal bio before. It was kind of amusing doing it off the top of my head. It may be a way to find out what is and was really important to an individual. Re-reading it an hour later, I remembered a few things I might include if I did it again. All in all, a nice opportunity to reminisce.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Aren't there any other current Kansas officials here who can verify one way or the other?

No, there's a shortage.

[rockchalk jhawk]

I know this thread may be dead, but I did notice this today when reviewing some stuff for the upcoming season. This is taken off of the KSHSAA website from the page found here: http://www.kshsaa.org/BASKETBALL/PDF...ouncements.pdf

COACHING BOX
The Executive Board has approved the
optional six-foot (6’) coaching box for the
2007-08 season. Only the HEAD COACH
may be off the bench in front of his/her
seat within the confines of the designated
coaches’ box to give instructions to his/
her players and/or substitutes. The head
coach may:
• Stand to instruct (coach) then,
• Sit down
• Not kneel, squat, pace or stand
during a live ball.
Coaches not complying are to be assessed
the appropriate penalty of a technical
foul. Once either a direct or indirect “T”
is assessed, the coach(es) MUST comply
with provisions of Rule 10-5-1 and 10-5-2
for the remainder of the game. Officials
SHALL file the appropriate report on
Loss of Coaching Box Privilege Form
(2007-08 Blue). The form may also be
submitted online by logging into the officials
website.