correctable error?

[Scrapper1]

Assuming no player from Team A had the ball at his/her disposal for a throw-in prior to time expiring in the fourth quarter, the error is correctable. Since there was no change of possession after the error (the ball became dead and there was no chance for a Team A throw-in), we would normally line up for one free throw and play off the make or miss. However, since time has expired, there will be no rebound, so no players will line up along the lane. If B1 makes the free throw, the game is over.

This situation is different from a technical being called after the expiration of time. In that case, if the game is tied, the free throws are shot to start the OT.

But in the correctable error situation, the fourth quarter is not completed until the free throws and all related activity are completed. In this case, all the free throws of the fourth quarter were not attempted. So the corrected free throw is part of the fourth quarter.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by welref

B1 is fouled by A1 during a field goal try with 3 seconds remaining in the 4th quarter.Team A is up by 2 points. By mistake, the official steps in and says 1-1 instead of 2 FT's. B1 shoots the first FT and misses the FT attempt. B2 secures the rebound and scores a 2 pt basket on a tap before time expires. AFter time expired to end the fourth quarter, the scorer then notifys the referee that B1 should had shot 2 FT's instead of a 1-1. The referee then begins the OT period by giving B1 his second FT and play continues from there. Was this correctable error administered properly? Rule reference for this sit. will be appreciated.

My initial thought was the Op was correctly applied with regulation ending with a tie and starting OT with a FT. However, if the score was not tied, lets say down by one, wouldnt you have to shoot the unawarded FT as part of the 4th quarter to determine if you would have OT? If that is the case, why wouldnt it be part of the 4th in this OP too? I agree it is unfair tho....

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Assuming no player from Team A had the ball at his/her disposal for a throw-in prior to time expiring in the fourth quarter, the error is correctable. Since there was no change of possession after the error (the ball became dead and there was no chance for a Team A throw-in), we would normally line up for one free throw and play off the make or miss.

I think that "the ball going through the basket" is the same as "a held ball with the arrow pointing to the other team" as in 2.10.1A. That is, both result in a "change of possession" for the correctable error rule. So, no matter when we shoot the FTs, no one is on the line, and we're resuming from someplace other than the merited FT.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I hear you Frank, but since 5.6A does not specifically mention correctable errors, I would be hesitant to apply it in this case...not saying you are wrong, I would just like to see this specific case addressed before I would apply this...I will grant that it does seem to make sense to make it part of the 4th quarter, it just seems grossly unfair to team A in the example, we just gave B a 3 point play because of our error? And decided the game because of it?

5-6, exception 3: "No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next except when a correctable error as in 2-10 is rectified.

According to 5-6, the quarter has ended, and none of the exceptions applies. So, we're going to play OT.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

5-6, exception 3: "No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next except when a correctable error as in 2-10 is rectified.

According to 5-6, the quarter has ended, and none of the exceptions applies. So, we're going to play OT.

Interesting. I'm going to have to think about this for a bit. . .

[Splute]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

5-6, exception 3: "No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next except when a correctable error as in 2-10 is rectified.

According to 5-6, the quarter has ended, and none of the exceptions applies. So, we're going to play OT.

I do not have my new books with me to see if the wording on Exception 3 changed, but 2006-07 rules online state the following:

5-6

Art. 2... Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal sounds indicating time has expired.
	EXCEPTIONS:
	1.		If the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or extra period ends when the try or tap ends.
	2.		If a held ball or violation occurs so near the expiration of time that the clock is not stopped before time expires, the quarter or extra period ends with the held ball or violation.
	3.		If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal. The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to the next. No free throw(s) shall be attempted after time has expired for the fourth quarter or any extra period, unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.
	4.		If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter or extra period, the next quarter or extra period is started by administering the free throws. This applies when the foul occurs after any quarter has ended, including the fourth quarter, provided there is to be an extra period. If there is no way to determine whether there will be an extra period until the free throws are administered, the free throws are attempted immediately, as if the foul had been part of the preceding quarter. Seems to me we would need to shoot the merited FT now to see if there would be an OT. What am I missing Bob?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Splute

What am I missing Bob?

As Bob said, you are missing the addition that was made to the rule in this year's rule book. New language was added to include a correctable error.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As Bob said, you are missing the addition that was made to the rule in this year's rule book. New language was added to include a correctable error.

Therefore we are NOT to take into account that the correctable error could make a difference in the tie at end of regulation?
If the score was not tied and the resulting FT could create a tied game, then and only then do we shoot them immediately?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Splute

Therefore we are NOT to take into account that the correctable error could make a difference in the tie at end of regulation?
If the score was not tied and the resulting FT could create a tied game, then and only then do we shoot them immediately?

I think you are confusing two issues:

1) You only shoot free throws at the end of regulation/OT if they "matter" in determining or potentially determining the outcome of the game.

2) Once regulation has ended, you cannot "go back" to the 4th quarter to correct an error. You correct it to begin the OT.

If the error had been discovered prior to regulation ending, then you WOULD attempt the free throw which could determine the outcome of the game. I believe the kicker here is that the error was not discovered until regulation had ended.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As Bob said, you are missing the addition that was made to the rule in this year's rule book. New language was added to include a correctable error.

I had not noticed this before this thread. Let's put another mark in the unannounced changes column. Unfortunately, the NFHS provides no guidance whatsoever for us regarding this new change.

Therefore, I'm not sure how the new rule about correcting an error after a quarter has ended works, but I would like to point out that the ball has not yet become live in the next period. Thus there is an important rule and case play that we must consider.

5-7-4 . . . Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made.

OVERTIME CONTINUES
5.7.4 SITUATION: The score is tied at the end of regulation time. During the overtime period, the official scorer informs the referee that Team A had an additional point in the fourth quarter that was not counted. In (a), the referee reviews the scorebook and recognizes where a point was not properly credited to Team A; or (b) the referee does not have definite knowledge that a point was not credited to Team A. RULING: In (a), the referee adds a point to Team A's score. In (b), the referee does not add a point to Team A's score. In either case, the referee continues the overtime period to completion. (2-11-11)

So we know that once we start an extra period we must finish it, even if there is a scoring correction made. However, there is also a ruling that tells us not to play the extra period if the correction is made prior to its start.

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 10: The score is tied at the end of regulation time. During the intermission between the fourth quarter and the beginning of the overtime period, the official scorer advises the referee that A1's three-point goal earlier in the fourth quarter was recorded in the scorebook improperly as a two-point goal. The referee verifies the mistake. RULING: The game is over and Team A has won. Since the ball had not yet become live in the overtime period, it need not be played. (2-11-11; 5-3; 5-7-4)

This ruling makes more sense to me. I would correct the error and not play the extra period if the score was no longer tied.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I had not noticed this before this thread.

Me either, which is why I answered the way I did originally.

This ruling makes more sense to me. I would correct the error and not play the extra period if the score was no longer tied.

I agree, but I can see the reasoning for doing it as part of the OT. I'll have to talk to some higher-ups around here and see what they come up with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'll have to talk to some higher-ups around here and see what they come up with.

That would be a select group, right?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That would be a select group, right?

That was low.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

That was low.

That's why he said it, so it wouldn't go over some people's heads.

[Jimgolf]

Let me re-phrase this to ensure I understand the ruling. Team A leads by 2 points. B1 was fouled in the act of shooting, but was sent to the line to shoot 1-and-1? B1 misses the shot, and B2 tips it in, then the buzzer sounds. The score is tied, so we go to OT. The official discovers the error, since the basket was scored, it still counts, since all awarded points prior to the correctable error count. Since B1 has earned a second free throw, it is shot as part of the OT period. Is that summary correct?

This is not really equitable, since B2 should not have been able to score a basket after the first miss. If the officials had made the correct call, B1 would have had to miss the second free throw as well if B2 were to have the opportunity to tie the game. In other words, the corrected situation is creating a score that could not have possibly happened if the FTs had been administered properly. If B1 had made the second FT, A would have had the ball and B would have presumably lost. If B1 had missed the second FT as well, B2 might have had the chance to still tip in the rebound, but there would have been no makeup FT. A bit of a hole in the correctable errors procedure, but I hope I understand the reasoning properly.