correctable error

[John Schaefferkoetter]

7 seconds remaining in the quarter. Team A to shoot two free throws. 1st free throw attempted and missed, team B rebounds and takes it the length of the floor and scores as time runs out. Team A coach recognizes that the second free throw wasn't attempted.

What do you do? Wipe off team B's field goal. Put up 7 seconds? Re-shoot the 2nd free throw?

Thanks in advance.

[bigwhistle]

It would be easy to say....take the points by B off the board, put the 7 seconds back on the clock, and shoot the 2nd free throw and play on. Unfortunately, even though this would be the most fair thing to do, it would be incorrect.

This would be a correctable error (2-10-1-a. failure to award a merited free throw). Therefore you would go back and shoot the free throw.

However, because of 2-10-5, which states....Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified, you can't do a "do over".

Therefore, in your senerio, count the basket by B, go back and shoot the last free throw by A, and the period is over.

[whistleblower]

First of all, if you know there are two shots, you blow the whistle as soon as B takes off with the ball. Having said that, if you missed it, you put 7 seconds back on the clock, wipe out B's basket, put A back on the line for the second shot, and play it from there. B was not entitled to the ball on the missed first shot, the clock should not have started, etc.

[fletch_irwin_m]

This does seem like an odd situation.
7 seconds is an eternity in basketball. Was team A guarding team B? Was there any communication between the officials? Was there a TO before the FT?
I am not sure why you would not "do over." In theory, the ball is still "dead" because the second free throw was not attempted. What would make it difficult would be if the two teams played the last 7 seconds, the officials positioned themselves for the last 7 seconds, and not until the game was over and the officials were notified prior to "leaving the visual confines of the court" about the un awarded FT. I would not want to be in that position.

[Hawks Coach]

If you said one and one when it should have been two, the correctable error rules would apply and the points would stand. Ball was live when the first shot missed. If you said two shots and B rebounded the first, the ball was never live and I say take the points off and re-do.

This is especially true if A did not contest the rebound because it was the first of two shots.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

This is a correctable error (NFHS R2-S10-A1a and A2). The quarter ends with after A1 shoots his second free throw. This free throw will be shot with no one on the line. Under no circumstances is time to be put back on the clock. See NFHS R2-S10-A5.

This would also apply to a game played under NCAA Men's/Women's rules but I do not have my NCAA rules book in front of me for the appropriate rule references.

[krobs]

There are reasons that they print rule books and case books. You can't just do things because they seem right. This is a correctable error. Everything that happened must stay and you go back and shoot the remaining free throw with no time left on the clock and the lane empty

[whistleblower]

I agree, if nobody was aware of the error until the coach of team A pointed it out to the officials (how embarrassing!) However, if I'm aware of it, I blow the whistle immediately, and we shoot the second shot, and go on from there. How the hell two officials could not realize this until after the coach told them is beyond me.

[canuckrefguy]

Just to be clear....we count B's basket, right?

[hawkk]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
It would be easy to say....take the points by B off the board, put the 7 seconds back on the clock, and shoot the 2nd free throw and play on. Unfortunately, even though this would be the most fair thing to do, it would be incorrect.

This would be a correctable error (2-10-1-a. failure to award a merited free throw). Therefore you would go back and shoot the free throw.

However, because of 2-10-5, which states....Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified, you can't do a "do over".

Therefore, in your senerio, count the basket by B, go back and shoot the last free throw by A, and the period is over.

Don't necessarily agree that it would be more "fair" to take away the points that B earned with everyone on the floor playing a live ball . . . here, B ended up with the ball and 7 seconds and A got the free throw to which it was entitled -- seems pretty fair to me, and not conditioned on what happened. The "do over" theory would encourage gamesmanship in objecting -- wait and see what happens. (Though I concede there are bad results from the rule as it stands, in this scenario, this seems like themost fair result.)

(And to answer canuckrefguy, Bigwhistle is right that the basket counts.)

[fletch_irwin_m]

It seems like we are talking about two different things here.
1. Team B rebounds the ball, and Team A plays defense. Team B sets up a play for a shot and scores horn sounds. As the officials head off the court, Team A coach says "Hey, wait a minute. Weren't we supposed to shoot 2?" At that point the officials have no choice but to have that player shoot the extra free throw with no time on the clock.

2. Team B rebounds the ball. Advances the ball, shoots and scores as time expires. All the while Team A's coach is screaming for the second shot OR Team A is standing around the FT lane waiting for the second shot. In this situation, I am not sure why you would not just bring the ball back, wipe off the FG and play the second shot. Obviously, the clock started before it was supposed to, in which case if you have definite knowledge and can restore the clock. The basket would be wiped out because the ball is not "live" until the second free throw is attempted, therefore you could not have the other team score a basket.

To me these are two different cases. Otherwise, as I coach I would tell my team to ALWAYS rebound the first shot, throw it long and shoot the lay up before the official blows his/her whistle.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
This would also apply to a game played under NCAA Men's/Women's rules but I do not have my NCAA rules book in front of me for the appropriate rule references.

I got it: 2-10a. A.R. 9 is exactly to the point:

A.R. 9. B1 pushes A1 during an unsuccessful try. A1 is awarded two free throws. The first free throw by A1 is successful, after which B2 takes the ball out of bounds under Team A?s basket and passes to B3, who passes to B4 for an uncontested field goal in Team B?s basket. The captain of Team A then calls to the attention of an official that A1 did not receive a second free throw. RULING: The goal by B4 shall count. A1 shall be permitted to attempt the second free throw with no players lined up along the free-throw lane. The ball shall then be awarded to Team A out of bounds at the end line nearer Team B?s basket and the thrower-in shall be permitted to run the end line. This was the point where the game was stopped to correct the error.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
It seems like we are talking about two different things here.
1. Team B rebounds the ball, and Team A plays defense. Team B sets up a play for a shot and scores horn sounds. As the officials head off the court, Team A coach says "Hey, wait a minute. Weren't we supposed to shoot 2?" At that point the officials have no choice but to have that player shoot the extra free throw with no time on the clock.

2. Team B rebounds the ball. Advances the ball, shoots and scores as time expires. All the while Team A's coach is screaming for the second shot OR Team A is standing around the FT lane waiting for the second shot. In this situation, I am not sure why you would not just bring the ball back, wipe off the FG and play the second shot. Obviously, the clock started before it was supposed to, in which case if you have definite knowledge and can restore the clock. The basket would be wiped out because the ball is not "live" until the second free throw is attempted, therefore you could not have the other team score a basket.

To me these are two different cases. Otherwise, as I coach I would tell my team to ALWAYS rebound the first shot, throw it long and shoot the lay up before the official blows his/her whistle.

Thank you. I agree 100%.

[williebfree]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
Otherwise, as I coach I would tell my team to ALWAYS rebound the first shot, throw it long and shoot the lay up before the official blows his/her whistle.

If the Lead visually and verbally indicates the number of throws to be administered "2" ... and then B rebounds the first shot and passes it downcourt...

(Playing devil's advocate)
Should an official consider it as an unsportsmanlike action (10-3-7a); ... preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.

If you go with this ruling.... a correctable error is not even under consideration.

Unfortunately, TWO officials let this one slide WAY TOO LONG..... and it would be an extremely difficult position to take.
Comments?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by williebfree
If the Lead visually and verbally indicates the number of throws to be administered "2" ... and then B rebounds the first shot and passes it downcourt...

(Playing devil's advocate)
Should an official consider it as an unsportsmanlike action (10-3-7a); ... preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.

Could an official do this? Yes.

Should an official do this? Only in the most egregious instances.