Nasty coach

[eyezen]

Do not get involved. Penalize for behavior as you would for anyone else. Your objectivity is your livelihood. Karma will take care of the rest.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I would definitely talk to the AD, especially if she's a personal friend. Kids definitely don't need this treatment and rarely, rarely does it yield the kinds of things we say we're working toward.

Disagree.

It's the AD's job to handle this, not yours. You're interjecting yourself into a situation that others are paid to handle. See above.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Do not get involved. Penalize for behavior as you would for anyone else. Your objectivity is your livelihood. Karma will take care of the rest.

Disagree.

It's the AD's job to handle this, not yours. You're interjecting yourself into a situation that others are paid to handle. See above.

I'll re-disagree. It's the AD's job to handle this, but it's everyone's business to express disapproval of the jerk's behavior, so that the AD knows she needs to handle it, and that she'll have lots of support for handling it. She needs to know for sure what's happening (which she may not), she needs to know that several people disapprove, and she needs to know that it's appropriate to work with the guy to change his behavior.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'll re-disagree. It's the AD's job to handle this, but it's everyone's business to express disapproval of the jerk's behavior, so that the AD knows she needs to handle it, and that she'll have lots of support for handling it. She needs to know for sure what's happening (which she may not), she needs to know that several people disapprove, and she needs to know that it's appropriate to work with the guy to change his behavior.

Whose support? An independent contractor who was hired for about 90 minutes on a random Tuesday? And now that contractor, whom the AD views as little more than a necessary evil and a drain on the athletic budget, wants to advise the AD on personnel matters? The odds of this blowing up in the official's face are at least 50/50. Probably worse.

How would you react if the plumber you hired to fix the sink felt the need to call the next day to share his views on the way you raise your kids? How often do we joke about going into some obnoxious coach or fan's place workplace and giving our unqualified critique of how they do their work? It's only ever talked about because the sheer absurdity of the situation illustrates a point. But now you're actually suggesting that one of us actually do it!

Perhaps everybody should express their disapproval of this guy's behavior. But it's not appropriate for everybody to express it to the AD directly.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Whose support? An independent contractor who was hired for about 90 minutes on a random Tuesday? And now that contractor, whom the AD views as little more than a necessary evil and a drain on the athletic budget, wants to advise the AD on personnel matters? The odds of this blowing up in the official's face are at least 50/50. Probably worse.

How would you react if the plumber you hired to fix the sink felt the need to call the next day to share his views on the way you raise your kids? How often do we joke about going into some obnoxious coach or fan's place workplace and giving our unqualified critique of how they do their work? It's only ever talked about because the sheer absurdity of the situation illustrates a point. But now you're actually suggesting that one of us actually do it!

Perhaps everybody should express their disapproval of this guy's behavior. But it's not appropriate for everybody to express it to the AD directly.

Also this.

[REFVA]

I go back to my earlier post, Where are the parents, if he is so demeaning, arogant, loud mouth, puts the girls down, I would never have anyone speak to my daughter that way. where are the parents. I agree with BITS. We are officials paid to do a service, how many coaches have we seen in our careers that do that all the time. If you want to make a comment to the AD, fine. If the Ad hasn't seen the behavior, it's becuase he/she knows a lot more about this coach than we do, as well as the parents do to. he may be the best coach next to slice bread we don't know. Whack him for the clip board make a comment and move on. IMO.

[REFVA]

During half-time is usually a good time to privately tell the coach that while you are not suggesting how to coach his team, his ferocity is becoming a bit of a distraction to refs and fans, alike.
MICK

Mick, as a fan, maybe I would talk to him and say that. As a ref, you are opening a can of worms that I think you may want to stay away from..You open yourself to a bunch of remarks. I think T'ing him up for the clipboard will shut him up.

[mick]

Originally Posted by mick

During half-time is usually a good time to privately tell the coach that while you are not suggesting how to coach his team, his ferocity is becoming a bit of a distraction to refs and fans, alike.

Originally Posted by REFVA

Mick, as a fan, maybe I would talk to him and say that. As a ref, you are opening a can of worms that I think you may want to stay away from..You open yourself to a bunch of remarks. I think T'ing him up for the clipboard will shut him up.

I noticed that.
I prefer to **warn** , then *whack*.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'll re-disagree. It's the AD's job to handle this, but it's everyone's business to express disapproval of the jerk's behavior, so that the AD knows she needs to handle it, and that she'll have lots of support for handling it. She needs to know for sure what's happening (which she may not), she needs to know that several people disapprove, and she needs to know that it's appropriate to work with the guy to change his behavior.

You do not know the whole story. All you know is what you see in a 3 foot by 14 foot box for 32 minutes. But now you've gone beyond your duties as an official and interjected yourself into an issue that others are paid to handle. If this AD is that clueless that she doesn't know what's going on, then that is an issue for the principal, supt, & BOE. (or whatever the chain of command). He could be the best thing going for that program, you don't know.

Insert anecdotal evidence... I played for a coach who was well known in my HS association for his boorish sideline behavior. In fact he even has a nickname. But when others talk about him I just kinda of keep qiuet. All they know is by what they know working his games. He was a HOF coach in our state. He was old school and demanding and even sometimes demeaning, but pushed you beyond your capabilities, physically and mentally. On the flip side he is a churchgoing and very dedicated family man. He was here for ~25 years until he retired, obviously those in charge of his employment thought enough of him to keep him around. He is well respected by former players, to the point that many return to give back to the program throughout their adult life. He turned a lot of boys into men.

Now I realize this is somewhat different as you story is about JRHigh girls, but trust me things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt, the helos will make sure of that.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by eyezen

He was old school

AHA! Mystery solved!

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

AHA! Mystery solved!

I shouldn't even recognized this post by replying, so with due respect but sorry you're mistaken.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by eyezen

You do not know the whole story. All you know is what you see in a 3 foot by 14 foot box for 32 minutes.

Now I realize this is somewhat different as you story is about JRHigh girls, but trust me things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt, the helos will make sure of that.

You don't know the whole story either. You don't know that things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt.

Rita said she knew the AD. In my opinion, she should express her concern to the AD, as should the parents and fans who observe this unacceptable behavior. For all Rita knows, a couple of parents have complained and one more opinion will make the difference between the AD waiting and the AD dealing with it. If the AD knows about the sitch already, and is choosing to let it continue, Rita's opinion won't make much difference.

Also, there is a huge difference between Jr. Hi girls and varsity boys. Huge difference. I disagree with every yelling and belittling anyone as a motivational tool. I just think it's wrong. But in our society it's mostly acceptable for varsity boys. But I"m sorry, middle age girls are different.

Furthermore, Rita knows these girls, and has worked with them. SHe knows that what this coach is doing isn't going to accomplish what he wants. For that reason alone, she should talk to the AD.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You don't know the whole story either. You don't know that things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt.

Rita said she knew the AD. In my opinion, she should express her concern to the AD, as should the parents and fans who observe this unacceptable behavior. For all Rita knows, a couple of parents have complained and one more opinion will make the difference between the AD waiting and the AD dealing with it. If the AD knows about the sitch already, and is choosing to let it continue, Rita's opinion won't make much difference.

Also, there is a huge difference between Jr. Hi girls and varsity boys. Huge difference. I disagree with every yelling and belittling anyone as a motivational tool. I just think it's wrong. But in our society it's mostly acceptable for varsity boys. But I"m sorry, middle age girls are different.

Furthermore, Rita knows these girls, and has worked with them. SHe knows that what this coach is doing isn't going to accomplish what he wants. For that reason alone, she should talk to the AD.

I do know that it won't get to that point, how? the REFVA's (see post #12 first sentence) of the world will make sure, of which they are entitled, not you as an official.

Look you're right I don't know and I already conceded the fact that this is MS girls and not boys, but again does she? Does she go to practices? Know all the other aspects of the coach/player relationship?

If she knows these girls and the situation so well as to get involved emotionally, then why is she working their games? This is exactly why we shouldn't, she's not objective.

The OP obviously started this thread seeking comment. The consensus of the posts of this thread (not just mine) say leave it alone. Her (and your) emotional closeness is clouding her (and your) objectivity.

[RookieDude]

Men are from Mars...Women are from Venus.

When we officiate...we all should be from the planet Neptune. (Its neutral)

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Men are from Mars...Women are from Venus.

When we officiate...we all should be from the planet Neptune. (Its neutral)

Well, as long as we're off topic, how bout those Rockies? Pretty amazing run, eh?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I do know that it won't get to that point, how? the REFVA's (see post #12 first sentence) of the world will make sure, of which they are entitled, not you as an official.

Look you're right I don't know and I already conceded the fact that this is MS girls and not boys, but again does she? Does she go to practices? Know all the other aspects of the coach/player relationship?

If she knows these girls and the situation so well as to get involved emotionally, then why is she working their games? This is exactly why we shouldn't, she's not objective.

The OP obviously started this thread seeking comment. The consensus of the posts of this thread (not just mine) say leave it alone. Her (and your) emotional closeness is clouding her (and your) objectivity.

There is not a consensus to leave it alone. Several have said it might be appropriate to make a comment to the AD. Several others have said to whack for the clipboard thing, and for any profanity.

Why is she working a MS game with girls that she knows? Because it's a small town area where it's hard to find any refs at all to work any games much less MS girls (which certain refs might refuse).

And btw, the so-called-REFVA's of the world ARE letting this go on. They aren't stopping it. I as the ref don't have the right to yell at them, or even confront them, or even to confront the coach directly about this. But I would certainly take advantage of a relationship with the AD to express my opinion, and I believe it's my obligation to do so.

I didn't say I'd "handle it" or "deal with it" or "interfere". I can't, I have no authority. And I didn't say I would or should. What I said was that I'd express an opinion to someone who can deal with it.

That doesn't mean I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. It means I"m being a human being with ... alright, I"ll say it... empathy for other human beings. THere's certainly nothing wrong with that.