Ncaa Poe

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

What does the "under the basket" exception really mean?

2. When the defensive player has legally established a position under the
basket and contact occurs after the ball passes through the net, unless
the defensive player has been placed at a disadvantage (e.g., inability to
rebound, unable to put ball in play without delay.)

So when the defender is under the basket, after the ball passes through the net. Unless it's different in NCAA ball, then we've got an exception for contact after the ball becomes dead. If NCAA is like FED, then unless it's flagrant or intentional, we'd ignore this any time the ball became dead but there was contact afterward.

And with the specific mention of "after the ball passes through the net," then even if the defender is under the hoop, it doesn't preclude a charge if the contact is before the ball passes through the net.

So, as I read it, the two exceptions are roughly:

1) incidental contact (a no-call anywhere on the floor)
2) non-intentional, non-flagrant contact after the ball is dead (same as if it occurred anywhere on the floor).

Am I missing something?
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Now we're getting somewhere. Great point! No, you are not missing anything, in fact you may have helped me. Now I have a better understanding from a different prospective as to why it wasn't being called. I'm not so sure the ball or play is dead unless the last minute of the 2nd half after a made bucket. So the reasoning that the contact is to be ignored unless intentional or flagrant is a stretch. And we still have the problem of the flop which was intorduced this year. I don't know or understand how the heck they want us to call this!

I got more to add. i just got my men's NCAA mechanic manual in the mail. Page 13 Q&A with Hank Nichols.
Q: You've changed and communicated that a block/charge call in the lane on a drive to the basket becomes primary for the lead official. What is the reason for the change?
A: Sometimes the center official might get a better look, but I believe most of the time the lead official will have a great look at the play. Historically the philosophy of officiating dictates the the ref with the play coming toward him usually will have a better chance of getting the play called correctly.....

Hank feels that the lead making this call will make it more consistent. Doesn't really get to the heart of the matter here but I just thought I would add it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now I have a better understanding from a different prospective as to why it wasn't being called. I'm not so sure the ball or play is dead unless the last minute of the 2nd half after a made bucket. !

No, you still completely fail to understand very basic rules and concepts. The ball is dead immediately after a made basket EVERY time it happens at ANY time during the game. You're confusing stopping the clock with the ball becoming dead. Still. It's been explained to you...oh...maybe 20-30 times since you came here. It's like talking to a wall.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's been explained to you...oh...maybe 20-30 times since you came here. It's like talking to a wall.

If words aren't getting the message across, perhaps a picture will.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, you still completely fail to understand very basic rules and concepts. The ball is dead immediately after a made basket EVERY time it happens at ANY time during the game. You're confusing stopping the clock with the ball becoming dead. Still. It's been explained to you...oh...maybe 20-30 times since you came here. It's like talking to a wall.

Dude, I wasn't born yesterday. The ball maybe dead but the clock is still running! Okay, if the clock is still running, I can still have a personal foul. For example: after a made bucket b4 grabs A4 trying to get free. Okay, using the block/charge reasoning we are discussing here, I am to let that foul go if it's not intentional or flagrant. Give me a break! Somebody please shut this fool up, he ruining the discussing. I'm trying to learn and you're playing grade school games.

B4 fouling A4 is a personal foul. If before all this, A1 drives in and shoots, and the ball goes in, and then there's contact to B1 standing under the basket. You're telling me we're ignoring this because it's not intentional? No wonder it's so damn inconsistent! I never reason this. I reason you can't play defense standing under the basket like it was last year with the women. Oh brother.....where are all the decent referee's?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Dude, I wasn't born yesterday. The ball maybe dead but the clock is still running! Okay, if the clock is still running, I can still have a personal foul. For example: after a made bucket b4 grabs A4 trying to get free. Okay, using the block/charge reasoning we are discussing here, I am to let that foul go if it's not intentional or flagrant. Give me a break! Somebody please shut this fool up, he ruining the discussing. I'm trying to learn and you're playing grade school games.

What would you say if someone told you that he is right and that you are the fool?

4-19-1 NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is ignored unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.


6.1.2 SITUATION B: Team A has just scored a goal. The ball is bouncing close to the end line when: (a) A1 calls for a time-out; or (b) A1 contacts B1. RULING: In order to rule correctly, it depends on whether the bouncing ball is judged to be at the thrower's disposal. If the covering official judges it is at the thrower's disposal, he/she would start the count and the ball becomes live. In this case, in (a) no time-out is granted and the foul in (b) is penalized. If the ball is not at the thrower's disposal, the time-out is granted in (a) and the contact in (b) is ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant. COMMENT: In this situation, the covering official must give the new throw-in team a moment or two to recognize it is their ball for a throw-in and get a player into the area to pick up the ball. If the ball is near the end line, it is the throw-in team's responsibility to secure it and throw-in from anywhere out of bounds along the end line. The covering official shall start his/her throw-in count when it is determined the ball is available. (4-4-7d)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Dude, I wasn't born yesterday. The ball maybe dead but the clock is still running! Okay, if the clock is still running, I can still have a personal foul. For example: after a made bucket b4 grabs A4 trying to get free. Okay, using the block/charge reasoning we are discussing here, I am to let that foul go if it's not intentional or flagrant. Give me a break!

That's what the rules say. If you have to call this foul when the ball is dead, you have to call an intentional (or flagrant, if appropriate) technical foul. Ignore the contact if you can.

Originally Posted by Old School

Where are all the decent referee's? (sic)

Reading, understanding, and following the rules as written rather than as they'd like to see them written.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) Dude, I wasn't born yesterday. The ball maybe dead but the clock is still running! Okay, if the clock is still running, I can still have a personal foul. For example: after a made bucket b4 grabs A4 trying to get free. Okay, using the block/charge reasoning we are discussing here, I am to let that foul go if it's not intentional or flagrant.

2) Somebody please shut this fool up, he ruining the discussing.

1) How does your theory work in the last minute of an NCAA game when the ball is dead after a made basket and the clock isn't running? Your birth date doesn't matter. Your lack of basic rules knowledge does matter.

2) deleted.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) How does your theory work in the last minute of an NCAA game when the ball is dead after a made basket and the clock isn't running? Your birth date doesn't matter. Your lack of basic rules knowledge does matter.

2) deleted.

I don't know what my birth date is got to do with this. I know that my rules knowledge is not as good as yours. However, the difference between me and you is that, if I was on top of my profession. I would not hate others for not being on top of there's. IOW's, I wouldn't feel threaten by someone like me who's trying to learn his way. I wouldn't engage in constant insults nor try to get others to feel the same way about me, iow's spread hate. Now I know why decent thinking referee's don't frequent this forum.

A wise man once said, true leaders understand you don't have to put people down to make a point. These type of leaders are respected thru-out history, the ladder are not.

Last, I have absolutely no respect for people who try to make others look bad at their expense. To me, you are truly the scum of the earth. Where does it end.....?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I don't know what my birth date is got to do with this. I know that my rules knowledge is not as good as yours. However, the difference between me and you is that, if I was on top of my profession. I would not hate others for not being on top of there's. IOW's, I wouldn't feel threaten by someone like me who's trying to learn his way. I wouldn't engage in constant insults nor try to get others to feel the same way about me, iow's spread hate. Now I know why decent thinking referee's don't frequent this forum.

A wise man once said, true leaders understand you don't have to put people down to make a point. These type of leaders are respected thru-out history, the ladder are not.

Last, I have absolutely no respect for people who try to make others look bad at their expense. To me, you are truly the scum of the earth. Where does it end.....?

When you first started posting, most of us tried to help -- giving respectful, accurate answers. You, however, have shown no inclination or ability to learn, and continue to spout incorrect rules under the guidance of "opinion."

If you don't have any respect for us, you should leave. Seriously.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

To me, you are truly the scum of the earth. Where does it end.....?

Exactly, where does it end?

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Old School

IOW's, I wouldn't feel threaten by someone like me who's trying to learn his way.

You learn by listening, not by talking. Ask questions, if you want to guess at an answer to someone else's question, say upfront "My guess is ...", then ask, "Am I right?" or the like.

When you are told you are wrong, don't argue, try to listen harder.

Order the rule books, case books, and videos from NFHS, officiate more games with good partners, and LISTEN!

A smart man knows his limitations. Only a fool ignores them.

Shhhh!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

You learn by listening, not by talking. Ask questions, if you want to guess at an answer to someone else's question, say upfront "My guess is ...", then ask, "Am I right?" or the like.

When you are told you are wrong, don't argue, try to listen harder.

Order the rule books, case books, and videos from NFHS, officiate more games with good partners, and LISTEN!

A smart man knows his limitations. Only a fool ignores them.

Shhhh!

You are a wise man, Jim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

Dude, I wasn't born yesterday. The ball maybe dead but the clock is still running! Okay, if the clock is still running, I can still have a personal foul. For example: after a made bucket b4 grabs A4 trying to get free. Okay, using the block/charge reasoning we are discussing here, I am to let that foul go if it's not intentional or flagrant. Give me a break! Somebody please shut this fool up, he ruining the discussing. I'm trying to learn and you're playing grade school games.

1) Okay -- STFU.

2) We've told you before the difference between "dead ball" and "clock running". Are you even trying to learn?

3) Please stop the name calling. I can't moderate others when you engage (and start) the poor behavior.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Please stop the name calling. I can't moderate others when you engage (and start) the poor behavior.

I went back and deleted my response. No longer applicable or needed. My apologies.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) Okay -- STFU.

ROFLMAO!!!

2) Are you even trying to learn?

NO!!! I hate to be an "I told you so" kind of person, but NO, he's not here to learn or contribute. I've said this repeatedly. His sole purpose here is to get so far under your skin that the moderator of the forum drops an F-bomb. He's getting his jollies. He needs to get the boot, and permanently this time.

3) I can't moderate others when you engage (and start) the poor behavior.

Does that mean I can call him a moron and it won't get deleted this time?