Least called call

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

2) The rule says at approximately the same time. So I guess you want to have a big arguement about the definition of approximately? I could have called a technical on the 2nd foul which would have given the player multiple foul shots and the ball back.

2)JR, I'm sure that I did something wrong by your standards here. Fact of the matter is, when players start knocking other players to the floor after the whistle, I'm going to call something.

1) Yup, the rule defining a "multiple foul" certainly does say that. And you certainly could also call an intentional or flagrant contact technical foul on the second foul too, IF the ball was dead on the first foul call. If you do call a technical foul though, then you CAN'T call a multiple foul. The definition of a "multiple foul" in the rules says that only personal fouls can be part of a multiple foul, not technical fouls. If you did call a multiple foul with one of the fouls being a technical foul, then "approximately at the same time" does NOT come into effect because it can't be a multiple foul. You'd screw up the penalties completely too, calling it the way that you suggest. The penalties for the fouls called as part of a multiple foul are completely different than the penalties awarded for a common foul followed by a technical foul. If the player wasn't shooting, then there wouldn't be any FT's if the multiple personal fouls didn't put the team in the bonus. If they were in the bonus, there would only be 1 FT for each foul. And there's all kinds of other combinations available on multiple fouls also, depending on whether the player was fouled was in the act of shooting, or whether the ball went in or not. You have to know all of these different penalty applications if you want to get the call right and award the proper number of FT's.

2) JMO, I don't have a problem with you calling something when a player gets knocked to the floor. I sureashell do have a problem if you're making the wrong call and handing out the wrong penalties though, and also telling others to do it your way. You simply do not understand the rules. That's my point.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you do call a technical foul though, then you CAN'T call a multiple foul.

Say What!!!!

The definition of a "multiple foul" in the rules says that only personal fouls can be part of a multiple foul, not technical fouls.

Incorrect! The rules state that a multiple foul could be an Intentional Foul or a Flagrant Foul. Rule 4-19-3 and 4-19-4 states that an Intentional Foul or a Flagrant foul may be personal or technical. Rule 10-6 Penalties Section 6b. says a Multiple Foul can be Intentional or Flagrant.

If you did call a multiple foul with one of the fouls being a technical foul, then "approximately at the same time" does NOT come into effect because it can't be a multiple foul.

Bullsh!t

You'd screw up the penalties completely too, calling it the way that you suggest. The penalties for the fouls called as part of a multiple foul are completely different than the penalties awarded for a common foul followed by a technical foul. If the player wasn't shooting, then there wouldn't be any FT's if the multiple personal fouls didn't put the team in the bonus.

Damn, you must be having a bad day today. It's okay, we all have bad days. Rule 10-6 Penality Multiple Foul: 6a: says one F/T for each foul when NO TRY (was) INVOLVED. Give it up man, I knew exactly what I was doing when I called the foul, which BYW, I never told you what I did. So how can you say I screwed up the penalities?

One thing's for sure, the multiple foul scenarios are quite complicated. One in which I'm not going into. I'm just going to give out a Technical foul on the dead ball contact if I deem it unnecessary and intentional.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Say What!!!!

Incorrect! The rules state that a multiple foul could be an Intentional Foul or a Flagrant Foul. Rule 4-19-3 and 4-19-4 states that an Intentional Foul or a Flagrant foul may be personal or technical. Rule 10-6 Penalties Section 6b. says a Multiple Foul can be Intentional or Flagrant.

Sigh.....

For the life of me, I don't know why I'm wasting time with you over such a basic and simple rule that you simply can't understand. You just can't comprehend what you're reading.

Rule 4-19-12--"A MULTIPLE foul is a situation in which two or more teammates commit PERSONAL fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time."

PERSONAL!!

Note that they both committed PERSONAL fouls. Either of those PERSONAL fouls could also be an intentional PERSONAL foul or a flagrant PERSONAL foul. Neither one of those fouls can be a technical foul of ANY kind though. If one of them had committed a technical foul, then it couldn't possibly be a multiple foul. And if it ain't a multiple foul, you do NOT use 10-6PENALTY6.

Lah me.......

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.....

For the life of me, I don't know why I'm wasting time with you over such a basic and simple rule that you simply can't understand. You just can't comprehend what you're reading.

Rule 4-19-12--"A MULTIPLE foul is a situation in which two or more teammates commit PERSONAL fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time."

PERSONAL!!

Note that they both committed PERSONAL fouls. Either of those PERSONAL fouls could also be an intentional PERSONAL foul or a flagrant PERSONAL foul. Neither one of those fouls can be a technical foul of ANY kind though. If one of them had committed a technical foul, then it couldn't possibly be a multiple foul. And if it ain't a multiple foul, you do NOT use 10-6PENALTY6.

Lah me.......

So lemme get this straight...multiple fouls apply to peronal fouls only?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.....

For the life of me, I don't know why I'm wasting time with you over such a basic and simple rule that you simply can't understand. You just can't comprehend what you're reading.

Rule 4-19-12--"A MULTIPLE foul is a situation in which two or more teammates commit PERSONAL fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time."

PERSONAL!!

Note that they both committed PERSONAL fouls. Either of those PERSONAL fouls could also be an intentional PERSONAL foul or a flagrant PERSONAL foul. Neither one of those fouls can be a technical foul of ANY kind though. If one of them had committed a technical foul, then it couldn't possibly be a multiple foul. And if it ain't a multiple foul, you do NOT use 10-6PENALTY6.

Lah me.......

As far as the penalities goes, please explain to the listening audience the difference between a Flagrant Personal Foul and a Flagrant Technical Foul or one of the multiple fouls being a Flagrant Personal Foul? What is the difference in the penalities?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

As far as the penalities goes, please explain to the listening audience the difference between a Flagrant Personal Foul and a Flagrant Technical Foul or one of the multiple fouls being a Flagrant Personal Foul? What is the difference in the penalities?

Throw-in spot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Throw-in spot.

and the shooter, if there is one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

As far as the penalities goes, please explain to the listening audience the difference between a Flagrant Personal Foul and a Flagrant Technical Foul or one of the multiple fouls being a Flagrant Personal Foul? What is the difference in the penalities?

Hey, I know the answers. I've got a better idea. You tell me the difference between a flagrant personal foul and a flagrant technical foul. You tell me also what the right call should be in your post of 8:59am this morning--post #20 of this thread. And you tell me what the call is if one of the multiple fouls called is a flagrant personal foul.

And I'm still waiting to find out if you still insist that a technical foul of any kind can actually be part of a multiple foul under the rules, as you claimed above.

That'll show everybody that you really do know what you're doing. I await your answers.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hey, I know the answers. I've got a better idea. You tell me the difference between a flagrant personal foul and a personal technical foul. You tell me also what the right call should be in your post of 8:59am this morning--post #20 of this thread. And you tell me what the call is if one of the multiple fouls called is a flagrant personal foul.

And I'm still waiting to find out if you still insist that a technical foul of any kind can actually be part of a multiple foul under the rules, as you claimed above.

That'll show everybody that you really do know what you're doing. I await your answers.

That's okay, don't answer my question. In fact it's already been answered. Throw-in spot! That's the only difference. Now, do you really want to make a big issue over whether it was a personal or a technical when the only difference is the throw-in spot?

Some of us have better things to do then to quibble over such minor differences. The main thing here, which I got is 2 shots and the ball back, player disqualified. If you want to have a pissing contest over whether we take it out on the baseline or halfcourt. Remember, that's the only difference here. Then I will concede and save you the fluid.

You're still wrong about the part where you don't shoot unless you're in the bonus. Did you think I forgot about that? Oh, and one more thing, I never called a technical foul. I said the next time I will call a technical foul and be done with it. No multiple nothing. Last thing, please try not to take this

PERSONAL!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

That's okay, don't answer my question. In fact it's already been answered. Throw-in spot! That's the only difference. Now, do you really want to make a big issue over whether it was a personal or a technical when the only difference is the throw-in spot?

There is more. Who shoots is also a difference, and you can bet your game fees it will be a big deal to the coaches. Also, don't underestimate the importance of the throwin spot; especially if the flagrant personal happened during an attempt for a layup.

Originally Posted by Old School

Some of us have better things to do then to quibble over such minor differences. The main thing here, which I got is 2 shots and the ball back, player disqualified. If you want to have a pissing contest over whether we take it out on the baseline or halfcourt. Remember, that's the only difference here. Then I will concede and save you the fluid.

Again, and only for affect, it's not the only difference; nor is it insignificant.

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh, and one more thing, I never called a technical foul. I said the next time I will call a technical foul and be done with it. No multiple nothing.

You're the one who said you had a multiple foul. Did you or did you not call a multiple foul on the situation you posted about?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I've got a better idea. You tell me the difference between a flagrant personal foul and a personal technical foul.

Is this a trick question?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Is this a trick question?

No, brain fart. Went back and changed it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.....

For the life of me, I don't know why I'm wasting time with you over such a basic and simple rule that you simply can't understand. You just can't comprehend what you're reading.

You might have stopped right there.