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Old Sun Sep 09, 2007, 04:21pm
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BI on the free throw ... or BI in general. Never called either. I officiate mostly smaller schools and have never seen it.
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Old Sun Sep 09, 2007, 04:47pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by refnrev
BI on the free throw ... or BI in general. Never called either. I officiate mostly smaller schools and have never seen it.
Just curious as to why you think the size of the school would have something to do with whether or not the players would commit BI.

Or, by "smaller" did you mean in height?
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Old Sun Sep 09, 2007, 05:06pm
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Just meant that I don't do a lot of big schools or powerhouse programs with a lot of real big players. Most of the schools I do just haven't had many players with the size. A few, but not many ... and they left the basket alone. One school that I do a few games a year for has only 27 kids in the senior class. Good question by you on my unclear wording, though.
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Old Mon Sep 10, 2007, 09:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Excuse me! How was it the wrong call?
Apparently there was confusion stemming from your original post of this play on what happened, so let's go back in time for a moment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
After reading up the definition of a multiple foul, I once called it. Player driving in for a layup was foul at the top of the key, his momentum took him in for a layup, which another player came across and hampered him again shooting the layup.
Now, from this description, it is reasonably assumed that you had one player get fouled by two different defenders during a live ball. This can happen when a player is fouled by one defender as he starts his shooting motion and another defender before that shooting motion ceases (or before the shooter lands.) Since the shooting motion has started, the ball does not become dead on the first foul, but instead remains live until the shooting motion is complete and the airborne shooter has returned to the floor.

Alternatively, a "multiple foul" would occur if two players hacked a shooter at the same time. Normally, in this play, one player is picked and only one foul is called. Since you stated you'd read up on the definition of multiple foul, I figured you maybe actually had one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Incorrect, as usual from you. If the 2nd foul needs to be called, it's a dead ball foul, a dead ball foul is a technical, or i could say it was apart of the original move and make it a multiple foul.
Gee, from this sentence, you seem to know that your original scenario was not in fact a multiple foul; it is a false multiple.
If it's a false mutliple, you'd penalize each foul in the order it occurred. Shoot the personal foul shots and then shoot the technical foul shots. If it's a multiple, you only shoot two shots. The difference is major. So, when you say you administered it by the rules, please forgive my skepticism and explain how you did it.
Here, you give further description of the play:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Let's table our imagination here. The player was fouled at the top of the key, my partenr called it, foul was on the floor, on the drive. The player continued to dribble towards the basket after the foul call, maybe he didn't hear the whistle but he wasn't going to be denied on this move.
This is a classic false multiple. Give the original fouler his personal foul, give the second fouler his technical foul and shoot the two free throws. You admit the correct call is the technical on the 2nd player due to the fact that it's dead ball contact. However:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
In fact, I did use it again and it encountered the same reaction. After about 10 minutes getting everybody settle back down, we got back to play. So I have decided to screw the multiple foul, that 2nd foul on the same player will be a technical foul.
This is from your original post, and strongly indicates you called a personal foul on the 2nd fouler rather than a technical foul. Let me ask, which coach was upset? How do you think making it a technical foul would have kept the coach calmer?
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Old Mon Sep 10, 2007, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
As far as the penalities goes, please explain to the listening audience the difference between a Flagrant Personal Foul and a Flagrant Technical Foul or one of the multiple fouls being a Flagrant Personal Foul? What is the difference in the penalities?
Let me help out on this and maybe keep Jurassic's blood pressure down.

Flagrant personal foul: guilty party disqualified, two shots for the player fouled, and the shooting team will get the ball at the spot nearest where the foul occurred.

Flagrant Technical foul: guilty party disqualied, two shots for anyone on the other team, and the shooting team will be given the ball at the division line. Two key differences.

If you have both foul situations on the same team, you administer them in the order they occurred, which will involve the flagrant personal being shot first and the technical free throws shot last, with the ball at the division line to the team that shot the free throws.

If you have one flagrant personal on one team followed by a flagrant technical on the other team, you will shoot all free throws and give the ball to the team shooting the technical foul free throws (since the Tech will have come after the personal).

If you have double flagrant personal fouls (one on each team), you will not shoot free throws and the ball will be put in play following POI procedures.

If you have double flagrant technical fouls (one on each team), you will not shoot free throws and the ball will be put in play following POI procedures.
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