something that always bugs me - Page 4

w_sohl · #46 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:23pm

You gentlemen have definately given me a different perspective on the call. I do see now how you MIGHT call a block, although I still would probably lean more towards the no call (is that sort of the consensus with the "dark side", the no call?) It is definatly my desire to advance beyond high school and even beyond D1 so I love to see the differing opinions.

Bart Tyson · #47 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:34pm

Who started this, was it you W_sohl or was it you Ralph? WAY TO GO. Its one of you guys fault. So fess up. The dark side says "out-a-my-way"! the lighter side says "how dare you". And then there is me, I'm kinda in between. And i don't mean any funny stuff, so don't even think about it!

w_sohl · #48 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:43pm

I dont believe in "dark side" "light side", was just using so that individuals knew who I was refering to at that time.

LarryS · #49 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
And then there is me, I'm kinda in between. And i don't mean any funny stuff, so don't even think about it!

Man, you left yourself wide open with this comment. I will refrain myself and let the many retorts that come to mind pass.

We'll see if all the others are so kind

Bart Tyson · #50 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 03:48pm

You are probably right. Even though i made it clear. I'm sure someone will give me grief.

Ralph Stubenthal · #51 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Who started this, was it you W_sohl or was it you Ralph? WAY TO GO. Its one of you guys fault. So fess up. The dark side says "out-a-my-way"! the lighter side says "how dare you". And then there is me, I'm kinda in between. And i don't mean any funny stuff, so don't even think about it!

I guess I did start this Bart. Now you see why I titled the situation "something that has always bugged me." I enjoyed and appreciate all the fine input from so many fine officials from the "dark" side and the "light" side. Thanks to all, Ralph.

stripes · #52 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 06:30pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

I'm still not sure that you answered my original question,Stripes.You say you wouldn't call a PC if he's under the basket,but would you now call it a block instead on a completely identical play to the one that you had already called a charge 10 feet away?That's what crew stated he would do in his original answer.If your answer is yes,you can then explain to me why you gave the PC call to an opponent of the player who is not in position in the first case,either,instead of a block.

I am not sure I understand what you wrote, but here goes...

I would either no call or have a block on a player under the basket. A player could draw a PC 10 feet away from the basket. So I guess I agree with crew. I don't think I understand the last question. A player not in position will not get a PC call--that is my whole premise.

I hope I answered your question.

Bart Tyson · #53 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 06:38pm

Strips, Def. under the basket, Off. player starts about 10' away, any direction, crash. What do you have?

Slider · #54 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 08:31pm

I'm going to come at this from a different angle.

In NFHS, it is clear that stationary defender B1 has a right to any place on the floor (I think that is the consensus). So, if a A1 crashes into B1 we have a PC or charge.

I don't know the fine points of NCAA, but I would guess that it is almost the same, according to the rule book.

Assuming by the book it is a PC or charge, shouldn't you current and future NCAA officials work at changing the mindset of your fellow officials to the book.

I believe we are obligated to try to follow the rules. How can you feel good about ignoring clear guidance in a rulebook? How do you have the moral high ground when judging other's behavior (ex: Howler Monkeys) if you are ignoring the rules?

I know you can't change things in a day, but shouldn't you try if you know better?

Mark Dexter · #55 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 09:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Slider
I don't know the fine points of NCAA, but I would guess that it is almost the same, according to the rule book.

Assuming by the book it is a PC or charge, shouldn't you current and future NCAA officials work at changing the mindset of your fellow officials to the book.

NCAA men's, the rule is the same as NF.

NCAA women's ball, however, has a note in its officiating guidlines which states, in part, "A defender who establishes a position directly under the basket . . . is not in a legal guarding position." While it may be an incorrect interpretation (just ask DeNucci), they at least have a "rule" unlike NCAA men who just call things this way.

Jurassic Referee · #56 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 22, 2002, 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
[/B]

I am not sure I understand what you wrote, but here goes...

I would either no call or have a block on a player under the basket. A player could draw a PC 10 feet away from the basket. So I guess I agree with crew. I don't think I understand the last question. A player not in position will not get a PC call--that is my whole premise.

I hope I answered your question. [/B][/QUOTE]No,you didn't really.If you re-read the threads,crew stated that a defensive player not in position would get a PC call in his favor if it happened in the paint up top.He then stated that the same player who is not in position,but has moved under the hoop,would now get called for a block.Note that it is the exact same play,but in a different location!My problem with this situation has got absolutely nothing to do with any FED/NCAA,dark side/light side,advantage/disadvantage philosophies.My problem is that you guys are saying that you would not call the same play CONSISTENTLY,dependant on where a player stands.If it's a PC one place,it should be a PC every place.Similarly,if it's a block one place,it should be a block everywhere.The only judgement should be whether you are going to no-call it or not.If you call it a block instead of a PC in similar situations,the players and coaches don't have a clue what to do out there.I just seem to get this picture in my mind of this happening to the newest red-neck Texas coach:-expletives deleted:
Bobby: "Ref,you just called a charge on my player at the other end.Now I get the exact same play in front of me and you call my player for a block.Wassup wit dat?"
Ref:Your player wasn't standing in the right spot at this end!A coach of your experience should know that."
Yup,I'd love to see that one.

:
Bart's got the right idea.Time to leave this one,and let 'er die.

stripes · #57 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 23, 2002, 11:14am

Any explanation from me would probably drag it on a while. I'll let it die.

crew · #58 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 24, 2002, 12:54pm

another reason why i call a block on a player hanging out under the basket is because a lot of the time an offensive player will make a great move to beat his primary defender and make a great play to the basket. i am not wiping this play with an offensive foul because some secondary defender is standing under the basket doing nothing. fans, coaches, even myself, want to see these plays occur.