Traveling philosophies....

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The reality is that they're turning the game into the NBA, which sureashell isn't a good thing. Coaches, players, fans and even us officials don't know what's going to be called on any particular play. There's no uniformity in rules-calling because they aren't calling by the rules. It's just plain wrong imo.

What constantly amazes me is that some big dawgs refuse to follow some very explicit NCAA directives and POE's. The sad part is that they do so while other big dawgs are.

Amen. I do HS varsity and down, and if I see a replant, I call it. Most of the time I get a relieving/sighing 'thank you' from the opposing coach, which tells me they aren't seeing that move getting called very often. And when the offending player's coach asks (if he asks) what the player did wrong, I explain and they have 99.9% of the time been good with it.

I'm finally starting to see coaches get on their players for attempting to make this move (after I call the violation). By definition, coaches are realizing that this is truly a travelling violation. There needs to be more stripes out there not worried about interrupting the game, or having the mentality, "Wow, everyone is yelling, so everyone must have seen something, I better call that and make it easy on myself." Just follow the d@mn rules, as written, to the best of your knowledge and capability. IMHO obviously, call me a traditionalist..........

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Just follow the d@mn rules, as written, to the best of your knowledge and capability. IMHO obviously, call me a traditionalist..........

Then why do we see legal jump stops called traveling much of the time? Not trying to get too socially contentious, but I see all the time urban kids complete a legal jump stop, only to see officials that are not used to seeing that kind of talent or officials that are used to seeing suburban and rural kids on a regular basis calling travels that were not there. I do not think that this has anything to do with people just not wanting to make a travel call. I see a lot of travel calls that just are not there, being made. Also do not get me started on the many high dribbles or when a player clearly does not have control of the ball being called.

Once again, this is the most inconsistently called rule at all levels. So I would not just say that officials are not calling something to stay out of trouble. I think many officials are not calling something because they do not have the judgment level (which is very important to get certain rules right if you ask me) to recognize a travel or some might not call something they are not really sure about.

Peace

[Mendy Trent]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Whether we like it or not, officiating is a very subjective thing. All we have here are two officials that disagree on what needs to be called or how to navigate the game.
Peace

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree. We've all had observers tell us differing philosophies at times and we just figure out which ones work best for us and move on.

However, what we have here, obviously, is assignors who are saying to completely ignore the rules (and a directive) and take the easy way out.

Don't call an obvious travel because it might "interrupt the game" and get you yelled at even if it is is a travel (and a directive). Let the players commit illegal moves to avoid taking away a basket in transition.

Do penalize a player by calling a travel, even if they haven't violated, because it's the easy way out and you won't get yelled at.

It would be nice if the NCAA would start some oversight on assignors and get rid of the ones that are encouraging games to be called in ways that conflict with what the NCAA is trying to get some consistency on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mendy Trent

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree. We've all had observers tell us differing philosophies at times and we just figure out which ones work best for us and move on.

However, what we have here, obviously, is assignors who are saying to completely ignore the rules (and a directive) and take the easy way out.

Don't call an obvious travel because it might "interrupt the game" and get you yelled at even if it is is a travel (and a directive). Let the players commit illegal moves to avoid taking away a basket in transition.

Do penalize a player by calling a travel, even if they haven't violated, because it's the easy way out and you won't get yelled at.

It would be nice if the NCAA would start some oversight on assignors and get rid of the ones that are encouraging games to be called in ways that conflict with what the NCAA is trying to get some consistency on.

I have attended two Division 1 camps in the past couple of years. I have never been told to not call an obvious travel. I have never been told to not call an obvious violation when they take place. I have seen critiques from clinicians that said, "Why did you not call that a travel?" As a matter of fact there was a play in transition and I did not call a travel and two clinicians were on me about missing that play. As a matter of fact I have seen officials at camps called to the carpet (and I have been on that carpet) for not calling a travel only to call a foul on the defense later or award a cheap foul, which would have never happen if we called the travel. I disagree that this is an assignor's issue. Traveling is just a hard call when often many of these plays are not obvious. How many times have you heard someone call for a travel and the play was completely legal?

Peace

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have seen officials at camps called to the carpet (and I have been on that carpet) for not calling a travel only to call a foul on the defense later or award a cheap foul,

Glad I'm not the only one. This is a big deal to observers, in my experience.

Traveling is just a hard call when often many of these plays are not obvious.

Agree 100%. The rule is easy to learn, but with the speed of players and the skill of the ballhandling, it is harder and harder to judge when the dribble actually ended.

[truerookie]

I have read this entire thread. The points that were made are valid. I have observed a lot of people state that calling travel is a difficult call to make. Yes, the rule is simple; yes, the speed of the game is quicker. However, you must continue to work hard to get in better position to make the correct call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I have read this entire thread. The points that were made are valid. I have observed a lot of people state that calling travel is a difficult call to make. Yes, the rule is simple; yes, the speed of the game is quicker. However, you must continue to work hard to get in better position to make the correct call.

I do not think positioning has much to do with the inconsistency of this call.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is a bad sign when a violation has been committed so much it has its own name. I have made this call many times, and I am aware that others do not call it. I see this much more often at the varsity level than at lower levels, which, to me, means it is conscious, not careless. Also, while it is sometimes a step back to create space from a defender, many times it is done with no defender in the picture. This says to me that it was done either a. for show
or b. for no reason at all. (same thing really) This makes me even less inclined to be "tolerant."

We also have options (c) player doing this to re-adjust his/her balance before shooting or (d) doing this to align him/herself behind the 3-point line. Either way, it DOES give the shooter an advantage.

That said, I don't always call this - more because it happens so quickly that it passes me by. When I'm certain it's happened, though, I have a whistle every time.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think positioning has much to do with the inconsistency of this call.

Again, agree 100%. Positioning is important because you need to be able to see which foot is the pivot foot; but even with good positioning, the moves happen so fast sometimes (and, let's be honest, a lot of officials are only calling it if it "looks funny) and that's what causes most of the inconsistency.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is a bad sign when a violation has been committed so much it has its own name. I have made this call many times, and I am aware that others do not call it. I see this much more often at the varsity level than at lower levels, which, to me, means it is conscious, not careless. Also, while it is sometimes a step back to create space from a defender, many times it is done with no defender in the picture. This says to me that it was done either a. for show
or b. for no reason at all. (same thing really) This makes me even less inclined to be "tolerant."

We also have options (c) player doing this to re-adjust his/her balance before shooting or (d) doing this to align him/herself behind the 3-point line. Either way, it DOES give the shooter an advantage.

That said, I don't always call this - more because it happens so quickly that it passes me by. When I'm certain it's happened, though, I have a whistle every time.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think positioning has much to do with the inconsistency of this call.

Peace

I agree positioning does not have anything to do with the cosistency of making the call.

[lrpalmer3]

Don't assume that when a travel is not called in an NBA game that it should not have been called. It's difficult to pick up a travel in the NBA because officials are busy looking for contact.

The NBA lets a lot of travels go, and I see a lot of legal moves called as travels on the high school level. Which is better? Who can say?

[canuckrefguy]

The re-plant needs to be called. The really good players can do the move while receiving the ball, but before they fully gain control, and then just shoot. More kids need to practice this. More coaches need to pay attention to it. Where I am, they don't want us to start splitting microbes, but they definitely want the obvious "re-plants" called.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then why do we see legal jump stops called traveling much of the time? Not trying to get too socially contentious, but I see all the time urban kids complete a legal jump stop, only to see officials that are not used to seeing that kind of talent or officials that are used to seeing suburban and rural kids on a regular basis calling travels that were not there. I do not think that this has anything to do with people just not wanting to make a travel call. I see a lot of travel calls that just are not there, being made. Also do not get me started on the many high dribbles or when a player clearly does not have control of the ball being called.

Once again, this is the most inconsistently called rule at all levels. So I would not just say that officials are not calling something to stay out of trouble. I think many officials are not calling something because they do not have the judgment level (which is very important to get certain rules right if you ask me) to recognize a travel or some might not call something they are not really sure about.

Peace

Agreed. I think too many times a travel gets called because 1) "It just looked ugly", or 2) "There's no way he could go from point A to B without travelling. And to me, neither is a good reason.

If I have a travel call, then I have a reason why. If the coach asks, I tell him specifically which foot was the pivot and what the player did illegally. If there is an 'ugly' play (no control, high dribble, etc) or if a player covers a lot of ground and I don't have a travel, then I make sure I know why I didn't have a travelling violation so that I could 'briefly' explain, if needed.

IMO, know WHY you whistle a play and make the reason rule based.....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

The NBA lets a lot of travels go........

This allows us to use NBA games as a learning tool. Watch the game, see an uncalled violation, use your dvr to back up and check the play.