Does this constitute fighting ?

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm critical of people that deliberately post something that is completely false, rules-wise. Part of the idea behind this site is the advancement of officiating knowledge. Anyone posting nonsense that is obviously wrong per the rules does absolutely nothing to help officiating knowledge.

If you want to say that the call that was made by Old School was a good call, even though that call was completely wrong by rule, hey, be my guest. Don't let the fact that some other rules-knowledgeable guys like Nevada and MTD Sr. disagree completely with you also. Don't get bent out of shape though when it gets pointed out that you are as wrong as Old School was.

Some answers aren't "opinions". They are either right or wrong according to the written rules. This particular one is a no-brainer. You can't call a technical foul for the live-ball contact as described, no matter what you and Old school think. And insisting that you can do so without any rules backing at all is ludicrous.

Officiating isn't objective when you call something that the rules won't allow to be called. You can't make up your own rules, believe it or not.

Jmo......like it or not.

Thanks, I am glad there is at least one perect person on this earth, do you walk on water as well?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Thanks, I am glad there is at least one perect person on this earth, do you walk on water as well?

If you want to post anything that refutes what I've said so far about the particular rules being discussed, please do so.

You and Old School are completely wrong in regards to those rules. If you feel like disagreeing further with that , feel free to cite something that will back up what you're asserting.

It's not a matter of being perfect. It is a matter of getting the call right. That's the important part.

[IREFU2]

All I am saying is that you need to have a little more tact when you post. This is a learning board for everyone. I do value your input.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

All I am saying is that you need to have a little more tact when you post. This is a learning board for everyone. I do value your input.....

You're probably right. I can do better in some responses.

Bad Woddy. Bad, bad Woddy.(disregard...irrelevant inside joke)

I apologize for my initial response to you. It certainly could have been worded better.

The general message remains the same though. This is a learning board for everyone, but especially newer officials, players, coaches and casual readers. It is incredibly frustrating sometimes to see basic rules completely butchered by the Old Schools of the world, and then have them endlessly insist that they are right without giving any rules backing. It just makes everybody's job harder down the line when newbies and non-officials don't know what to believe.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Old School

I respectfully disagree, you can call a live ball technical foul. Excuse me but isn't that what a flagrant foul is, a live ball TF? Whatever, the fact of the matter is I did it, now get over it. I know I sure have and I didn't get written up for it either. haha!!!

Old School:

1) Illegal contact while the ball is live is a personal foul. It cannot ever be a technical foul.

2) Personal fouls are of the following types: (a) common foul (including player control fouls and team control fouls (see the NCAA exception for throw-ins); (b) fouls committed against a player in the act of shooting; (c) intentional fouls; and (d) flagrant fouls.

3) Technical fouls are of the following types: (a) non-contact fouls while the ball is live; (b) non-contact fouls while the ball is dead; (c) contact fouls while the ball is dead; (d) intentional fouls; and (e) flagrant fouls.

What does this all mean? It means that any contact foul while the ball is live is a personal foul; and the official then must determine whether it is a common foul, a foul committed against a player in the act of shooting, an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul.

If you had taken the time to read and learn the definition of fouls, found in Rule 4 of both the NFHS and NCAA rules books, I would not have had to waste my time making this post.

MTD, Sr.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're probably right. I can do better in some responses.

Bad Woddy. Bad, bad Woddy.(disregard...irrelevant inside joke)

I apologize for my initial response to you. It certainly could have been worded better.

The general message remains the same though. This is a learning board for everyone, but especially newer officials, players, coaches and casual readers. It is incredibly frustrating sometimes to see basic rules completely butchered by the Old Schools of the world, and then have them endlessly insist that they are right without giving any rules backing. It just makes everybody's job harder down the line when newbies and non-officials don't know what to believe.

I agree...friends???? PLEASE!!!!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

1) Illegal contact while the ball is a personal foul.

MTD - I'm sure this is a typo. You're not suggesting the ball can be a personal foul, are you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

I agree...friends???? PLEASE!!!!

Lol...it never was personal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I respectfully disagree, you can call a live ball technical foul. Excuse me but isn't that what a flagrant foul is, a live ball TF? Whatever, the fact of the matter is I did it, now get over it. I know I sure have and I didn't get written up for it either. haha!!!

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Don't tell anyone, though. I've made wrong calls before, too. I once convinced my partner that anyone could shoot free throws for an injured player, not just his replacement.

Here's the kicker. That was the wrong call, and one made by a 19 year-old rookie who thought he knew better than his partner.

Here's the bonus. I can admit it was a bad call, even though no one ever mentioned it to me again. No one ever wrote me up for it.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Don't tell anyone, though. I've made wrong calls before, too. I once convinced my partner that anyone could shoot free throws for an injured player, not just his replacement.

Here's the kicker. That was the wrong call, and one made by a 19 year-old rookie who thought he knew better than his partner.

Here's the bonus. I can admit it was a bad call, even though no one ever mentioned it to me again. No one ever wrote me up for it.

I'm going to let you in on a secret. While researching the code on the APTI, I came across a case play where I totally kicked one. It was a boys varsity game and I was the R and I really wanted to jump toss the ball, good jumpers in the game. Well, in the pregame, one of the good jumpers dunked the ball. Stupid, I was looking the other way but my partner caught it. I tried to get my partner to let it go, so that I could still do the toss, he said no. Well, what I did was a player on the opposition team touch the rim on the way down as the teams was coming off the court for the introductions. Wah-la! I got a T on you for grabbing the rim, therefore making it a double T and we start the game with a jump. Classic, I got my jump ball back! Right! Woops, we did it wrong but I didn't realize until several years later. Most officials might not have something like that happen in a career of officiating. Therefore, you would not know the unique difference in the rule.

But you know what. I'm not going to sit here and brawl beat another official on this forum because he did it wrong. I would never ever, as long as I officiate do that to another official, even if I didn't like him. That is the difference between me and you. I have no malice in my heart to want to beat others down because they are not at my level.

[Nevadaref]

Quote: posted by Nevadaref

And while a technical foul can be charged during a live ball, one cannot be charged for CONTACT during a live ball. That is the point that JR is making to you. If there had NOT been any CONTACT on the play, then you could have assessed a T, but with CONTACT a technical foul is not permissible by rule in that situation.

Originally Posted by Old School

I hate to bust you and JR bubble but officially, the call was for unsportsmanlike conduct. I upgraded it, so now after removing the egg on your face. You got anything else you want to say I screwed up.

Sure, let's examine these two simple definitions:

4-19-5 . . . A technical foul is:
a. A foul by a nonplayer.
b. A noncontact foul by a player.
c. An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead, except a foul by an airborne shooter.
d. A direct technical, charged to the head coach because of his/her actions or for permitting a player to participate after having been disqualified. (10-5)
e. An indirect technical, charged to the head coach as a result of a bench technical foul being assessed to team bench personnel, or a player technical foul being assessed to a team member for dunking or grasping the ring during pregame warm-up or at intermission. (10-3-4, 10-4-1 through 5)


4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.



So even with your belated unsportsmanlike explanation, you are still incorrect. Have to love the cosmic justice here!

Now take your eggs and go make an omelet, if you can manage that task without a severe screw-up.

PS We all know who the silly monkey is on this one.

[Nevadaref]

Anybody else doing this at Old School Fool now?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have no malice in my heart to want to beat others down because they are not at my level.

That just might be the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.

And he was actually serious too, folks.......

Post of the week.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That just might be the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.

And he was actually serious too, folks.......

Post of the week.

I don't know 'bout that...this one from the "what's your response" thread gets my vote.

"I mean, I don't have to hold back with my officiating technique. "

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I don't know 'bout that...this one from the "what's your response" thread gets my vote.

"I mean, I don't have to hold back with my officiating technique. "

Geeze, I missed that one somehow. Hilarious. I'm trying to find out what "alma-no on alma-no" is now.That one isn't in the English/OldSchool dictionary either.