First Forfeit

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Boiler14

1) My partner T's her up after the second FT is completed. He then tells her kindly you must be seated. I heard her tell him she isn't going to.

2) I traded positions with him so he can get away. He tells me as I'm passing "she will be seated". I tell her she has to be seated and she tells me she isn't going to. This goes on a couple times.

3) I told her you will have to take a seat before we throw the ball in or you will be getting a second T.

4) I remind her what will happen if she gets the second T and she tells me she won't leave.

5) Finally the second FT ends and I look at her assistant (who is her father and hasn't said one word this whole time) and asked if he was going to help me here.

Now she gets #2 and has to leave.

But...she is not going. So, I hand it to the lead who now has to hear it all. The only difference is he was nice enough to go get the supervisor.

Well, one of the supers comes in and tells her that she has to leave. She said I'll sit, but she wasn't leaving. I piped in with that option has come and gone. The super gives her one minute and she doesn't start leaving until we say "ball game". Once again...too late on her part.

Well, let's count them up.....

According to #'s 1 to 5 above, you and your partner collectively gave the coach SIX warnings before you did anything about it. SIX WARNINGS! The coach basically told you to go f**k yourself after each of those SIX warnings. Finally, she gets the second technical foul that she should have got way back after the first warning, the second warning for sure. So......now she goes ahead and does exactly what she told you she was going to do. She refuses to leave. And your R still refuses to take care of bidness. You had to go get the site supervisor to do your job for you.

Sorry, but you collectively let that coach get away with bloody murder. The R literally ran away from his responsibilities. Not a good job at all imo. The R was looking for excuses not to do what he was being paid to do..control the game.

Six warnings?

[brandan89]

I agree with JR, you played around with her and gave her too many warnings. 1 warning, possibly 2 then be finished with her. T her up and send her or the game in your case on its way.

[Hartsy]

Sounds about like how I would have handled it. I didn't read anything in your post that would have drawn an immediate T from me, either for the first one or the second (though #2 was close). She was given enough time to calm down and end the spectacle. When it was clear she would not comply, a forfeit is all you had left.

Glad it was you and not me!

[Dan_ref]

I don't want to pile on but I agree with JR also. Entirely too much talking.

[Boiler14]

Hmmm....I really wasn't expecting to defend our actions. I was just telling a story of something unusual that happened.

I really wasn't counting up "warnings". Nothing was going on except FT's being shot so the game wasn't being delayed. She was told to stop the first time and didn't. I told her she had to sit before the ball was put back in play and didn't. Yes...I may have told her she had to sit down a few times, but there was no need to whack her until play was ready to resume. That is just my opinion in this case.

I don't think the coach got away with "bloody murder"....or any felony. She never yelled, stomped, cried, cussed...or listened to instructions, which was her downfall. Trust me, if she was throwing a fit like it must have been implied things would have happened much quicker.

I guess this just tells me that unless you are actually at the situation you really can't assume you would do anything different. Putting things in words doesn't tell you what the emotion (or lack thereof) of any situation described and that is an important element.

I say this sincerely because I really can't imagine many other veterans would have dumped her much quicker based on what happened. We gave her ample time to comply (without delaying the game) which is alot better than quick trigger in my book.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Boiler14

1) I really wasn't counting up "warnings". Nothing was going on except FT's being shot so the game wasn't being delayed. She was told to stop the first time and didn't. I told her she had to sit before the ball was put back in play and didn't. Yes...I may have told her she had to sit down a few times, but there was no need to whack her until play was ready to resume. That is just my opinion in this case.

2) I guess this just tells me that unless you are actually at the situation you really can't assume you would do anything different. Putting things in words doesn't tell you what the emotion (or lack thereof) of any situation described and that is an important element.
I say this sincerely because I really can't imagine many other veterans would have dumped her much quicker based on what happened. We gave her ample time to comply (without delaying the game) which is alot better than quick trigger in my book.

1) Nothing was going on? Read NFHS rule 10-5NOTES1 lately? After losing their coaching box privileges, the head coach is not supposed to be on their feet during FT's, unless it's to do some coaching duties that are explicitly laid out in the rules. As far as I can see, b!tching at the officials isn't one of the coaching duties listed. Loss of coaching box privileges applies to free throws.

2) I don't need to be at this situation to have my opinion. Reading about it is enough. I'm a veteran. I wouldn't dream of ever letting a coach get away with that kind of nonsense. She dared you multi-times to follow up on your warnings, and neither you or your partner had the...um...testicular fortitude to stand up to her. Why warn her at all if you're not gonna do anything about it? By your own admission, there was at least SIX warnings given out, and absolutely nothing was done after the first FIVE. No wonder she ignored you. If you didn't follow up on your first bunch of warnings, why would she expect that you'd all-of-a-sudden decide to say "Enuff's enuff".

You wanted comments. You got mine. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I really didn't expect you to like or agree with it.

[Boiler14]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Nothing was going on? Read NFHS rule 10-5NOTES1 lately? After losing their coaching box privileges, the head coach is not supposed to be on their feet during FT's, unless it's to do some coaching duties that are explicitly laid out in the rules. As far as I can see, b!tching at the officials isn't one of the coaching duties listed. Loss of coaching box privileges applies to free throws.

2) I don't need to be at this situation to have my opinion. Reading about it is enough. I'm a veteran. I wouldn't dream of ever letting a coach get away with that kind of nonsense. She dared you multi-times to follow up on your warnings, and neither you or your partner had the...um...testicular fortitude to stand up to her. Why warn her at all if you're not gonna do anything about it? By your own admission, there was at least SIX warnings given out, and absolutely nothing was done after the first FIVE. No wonder she ignored you. If you didn't follow up on your first bunch of warnings, why would she expect that you'd all-of-a-sudden decide to say "Enuff's enuff".

You wanted comments. You got mine. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I really didn't expect you to like or agree with it.

I don't think I was "wanting" comments. I expect them, but I was just telling a story of something unusual that happened. I'm not offended by anyone wanting to tell me how they would have reacted differently. However, unless you see certain situations play out I don't think everything is black and white as it appears to some.

Look, if we tossed her sooner I don't think we would have had the support of anyone. The super who these teams paid would have thought it was quick. The college coaches watching would have thought the same. Joe Public would have thought we were just there to make a quick buck and we could care less. Not that we're concerned with how things would be perceived, but it is important to have support (especially when you have three games left to do in the same building).

IMO it was better to not overreact but to slow things down and if I have to try to bend over backwards to keep the game going I'll do it...even if it is a fault to some.

[Adam]

Maybe, just maybe, if you popped her as soon as she refused to sit down the first time, she'd have known you were serious about the whole "You gotta leave" thing and she'd have left.

Maybe not.