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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:00pm
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Illegal screen - lack of contact

I had a play that occurred a number of times in a game I just reffed that I was looking for opinions on how it should have been handled. A1 is dribbling around, and then stops to look for a place to pass. A2 is moving into position to receive the pass, but first, clearly interferes with B1's movements by moving around in front of them, and then turns to receive the pass. There was little to no contact during this.

The screen A2 set was clearly illegal, because she was moving around in the path of B1, causing her to pull up short and have to change directions, or be cut off from going where whe was going before A2 started moving around in front of her. A2 clearly benefited from the movements, because it put her in position to receive a pass which led to an easy layup.

The lack of actual contact is where I have my question. Can/Should you call an illegal screen without contact?

I'll reserve my calls (or no-calls) for after the opinions have been posted. Thanks!
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
Can/Should you call an illegal screen without contact?

No, you can't!
There is no foul without contact. Never. Period.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:06pm
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I'll answer your question by asking a question (my wife hates when I do this, btw): What's the definition of a personal foul?
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:12pm
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Originally Posted by rainmaker
No, you can't!
There is no foul without contact. Never. Period.
Geeze, no reason to shout.

Maybe you're just hungry and thinking about a fish dinner?...
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Geeze, no reason to shout.

Maybe you're just hungry and thinking about a fish dinner?...
With some dead rat for dessert.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:44pm
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Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
With some dead rat for dessert.
Does it have to be dead?
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:57pm
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From NFHS 4-40: ART. 1 . . . A screen is legal action by a player who, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.

One of the absolutes in judging the legality of a screen is that there must be contact for it to be illegal (however, contact does not automatically make a screen illegal). From your description, A2 set a perfectly legal (but horribly executed) screen.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 04:58pm
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Does it have to be dead?
She wouldn't want to be accused of playing with her food.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 05:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
No, you can't!
There is no personal foul without contact. Never. Period.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 05:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
There was little to no contact during this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
The screen A2 set was clearly illegal, because she was moving around in the path of B1, causing her to pull up short and have to change directions, or be cut off from going where whe was going before A2 started moving around in front of her. A2 clearly benefited from the movements, because it put her in position to receive a pass which led to an easy layup.?
Both of these quotes effectively contradict each other. If there was no contact, the screen A2 set cannot be "clearly illegal". If A2 got to the spot first, and caused B1 to have to stop and go around, that's actually called "a good play".

Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
The lack of actual contact is where I have my question. Can/Should you call an illegal screen without contact?
Although I alluded to it, and rainmaker and BITS pretty much spelled it out - the answer to this question is no. Both the definition of a personal foul, 4-19-1, and the definition of a screen, 4-30-1, include the word "contact".
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 06:06pm
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Add to this that while you might be able to get away with calling a screen "illegal" even without contact, you can't blow your whistle because:
1. There cannot be a personal foul without contact.
2. There cannot be a violation called because there isn't a violation for "illegal screen" in the rule book.
Bottom line, there's nothing to call. If the coach asks/tells you to call "illegal screen," just say, "Well, that's a funny name, but is she cute?"
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 06:18pm
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Ok - thanks!

BTW, I screwed this one up... I did call it. Being in a camp (player, not official), no one really complained. But I learned something. Thanks!
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 06:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
The screen A2 set was clearly illegal, because she was moving around in the path of B1, causing her to pull up short and have to change directions, or be cut off from going where whe was going before A2 started moving around in front of her.
That's kinda the point of a screen. Just remember - sometimes it can be done legally.

Quote:
A2 clearly benefited from the movements, because it put her in position to receive a pass which led to an easy layup.
See above.

That said, I have to reiterate what everyone else has said in regards to having to have contact to have a personal foul.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 08:23pm
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As others have said, no contact no foul...but if it's something you keep seeing, have your radar up, and get it when the contact is there.

What will happen is the defender will either wise up and start running into the illegal screen...likely since her coach will be pointing out that moving screen, to which you will say no contact, no foul...or will get frustrated and start blowing up the screener or start hand fighting around it.
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Old Thu Jun 28, 2007, 08:50pm
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Years ago, when Rick Adelman was the coach of the Blazers, his son David played in our local kids rec league. I was working a game in which he kind of ran in circles in front of defenders when his team had the ball, but he never made any contact, even though the defenders then stopped or changed direction. Some parent from the other team yelled at me that "he can't just barge through there like that and you wouldn't let him if he was anyone else's kid."

At the next break, I told the parent I would be glad to sell him a rule book so he could learn that there was no foul if there was no contact and if he impugned my integrity again about favoring players, I would toss him out on his head. His kid's coach turned around and yelled at his to shut his trap, then the coach apologized to me on the guy's behalf.

OK, here's a separate story about Rick. Before the season, he came to watch our no-cut tryouts. There were about 100 kids there that night for those particular grade levels. I told him he should be scared. When he asked why, I told him he was looking at 100 unrestricted free agents. He replied, "Man, that is scary!"
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