Pushing/Posting

[rainmaker]

Freshman boys tournament. Post players beating each other up. We call it on gold, then on blue, then on gold again. Gold coach says, "He's posting up!"

"Coach, he was pushing and clearing out."
"No, he was posting up!"
"He was pushing. He's allowed to maintain his position, but he's not allowed to move the other player"
"Well then how's he supposed to stop him from getting the ball?"

Second half, same routine. If they'd been fouling out, this kid wouldn't have even been playing by then (I hate that!). Same explanations to coach, who clearly didn't have a clue.

Next game, same gold team, different opponent. SAME EXACT GAME STYLE, SAME FOULS ON SAME POST PLAYER!! Same explanations. Second half, again same stuff, same calls, same stupid excuses. no questions, no attempt to understand or adjust, no learning at all. I was tempted to toss the coach just for being an idiot!!

Okay, that's my rant. Now, might I have done anything differently that could have taught the kid a lesson and given him a better understanding of how to properly play the post? I expect trying to teach the coach anything is hopeless.

[mick]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, that's my rant. Now, might I have done anything differently that could have taught the kid a lesson and given him a better understanding of how to properly play the post? I expect trying to teach the coach anything is hopeless.

What was being called, how was it being called on the other courts, in the other games ? Was the philosophy summer fun, become varsity players, get to know your teammates ? Did you have real basketball coaches coaching, assistant track coaches coaching, little league baseball managers coaching ?
Were your colleagues officiating with real rules or were they officiating to keep the tourney moving ?

Were you standing on an island by yourself ? No woman is an island.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by mick

No woman is an island.

What about Rosie O'Donnell?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

What about Rosie O'Donnell?

I think she is a continent.

MTD, Sr.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I think she is a continent.

MTD, Sr.

I think she's a hemisphere.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Now, might I have done anything differently that could have taught the kid a lesson and given him a better understanding of how to properly play the post? I expect trying to teach the coach anything is hopeless.

Yeah. Don't coach players or try to teach them lessons. Leave that up to their coaches. That's their job- right or wrong. Just do your job. Call the fouls uniformly and consistently. If that doesn't teach the kid a lesson, then nothing is gonna help him. If the coach(or player) asks, just say he is illegally displacing his opponent. 'Nuff said. That's all the detail that's needed.

[Dan_ref]

It's not your job to teach lessons. Keep blowing the whistle. If they don't adjust they don't adjust. You are not required to explan your calls, period. And it seems to me you were attempting to answer a question when a question was not asked. No way no how I would have spent 2 games explaining my calls to any coach. You gave this coach far too much freedom.

[rainmaker]

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called. The other coaches WERE adjusting, and helping their kids, and this coach was so far out of line I kinda felt sorry for his players. I don't mean he was out of line in terms of his behavior or his words or actions, he didn't do much yelling or whining, but he was so wrong about the rules and what he was teaching his kids was so far off base.

I had a different partner for each of the games, and all three of us were very consistent, and were really trying to pay close attention to the post, so that it wouldn't get out of control. We'd call it and the kid would quit, and then he'd go into a time out, and when he came back onto the court, he'd be shoving again. It was obvious, the coach was telling him to keep pushing. I even saw once when his direct opponent was demonstrating to him about displacement.

I suppose we did all we could. I'm just trying to work on optimizing my talking and I'm wishing I could learn a little something from this experience (besides not to do any more tournaments where the players can't foul out.)

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea. . . but. . .

FWIW, I agree with Jurrassic and Dan_Ref. Don't teach, don't coach. And don't try to save a stupid coach from himself at this level. Hopefully, in the Fall, the kid will have a coach who knows a little more about what he or she is doing.

I suppose we did all we could. I'm just trying to work on optimizing my talking

"Straight up!" "No push!" "Get the arm off!" "Get the leg out!" That's about all I use and it tends to work. Even if they don't really know how to play defense, they can respond to simple commands like those.

[BktBallRef]

It's also not your job to keep explaining the same thing over and over again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called.

And you let people know how good ball should be called by calling good ball. End of story.

Your calls themselves do all the speaking that needs to be done. Trying to coach the kids and also coach their coach isn't part of your mandate as an official.

JMHO.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called.

I see, you want a job where you get to teach the young players how to play the game. hmmmm....what could that be...?



Here's the problem with your attitude: You mother a coach for 2 entire games, holding his hand, nurturing him, hugging him, trying to get him to see it your way....then he runs into someone who nails his @ss to the wall just as he's expecting the same high maintenance up close and personal treatment.

Is that fair to the coach? I don't think so.

So next time you want to play nurse-maid to a whining PITA coach let him know up front that you just happen to be a softy and most other officials wouldn't put up with his crap for more than 2 seconds.

This way I won't have to hear him whining across the court that all he wanted was an explanation as I'm walking to the other end to administer the 2 FTs to his opponent.

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

And most of the time you're explaining it to someone who's only reason for asking in the first place is to try and get you to start calling the plays the way that they want it called. They're just trying to influence your calls to gain an advantage.

Silly monkeys.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I see, you want a job where you get to teach the young players how to play the game. hmmmm....what could that be...?



Here's the problem with your attitude: You mother a coach for 2 entire games, holding his hand, nurturing him, hugging him, trying to get him to see it your way....then he runs into someone who nails his @ss to the wall just as he's expecting the same high maintenance up close and personal treatment.

Is that fair to the coach? I don't think so.

So next time you want to play nurse-maid to a whining PITA coach let him know up front that you just happen to be a softy and most other officials wouldn't put up with his crap for more than 2 seconds.

This way I won't have to hear him whining across the court that all he wanted was an explanation as I'm walking to the other end to administer the 2 FTs to his opponent.

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

Well, as usual, you're over-stating your case, but I get your point. I didn't say I wanted to talk more. I just have been working on talking and not-talking, and I"m trying to keep working on it. I get what you're saying about not talking so much, but it's just not my style, and hasn't worked well for me in the past. I was asking if there was anything more or different I might have said, but their probably wasn't. Now, will you just stfu, if I do too?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

"Coach, he was pushing and clearing out."
"No, he was posting up!"
"He was pushing. He's allowed to maintain his position, but he's not allowed to move the other player"
"Well then how's he supposed to stop him from getting the ball?"

You gave your explaination, but the coach doesn't want to hear it. No need for you to waste your breath and give it again. If he persists, either ignore him or give him the T.