Can you give a T for fan behavior

[KingTripleJump]

Can you give a T to a team for their out of control fans?

If so, would you give it to the bench or an indirect to the coach?

[Mark Dexter]

Technically, you could, but you could also call a multiple foul - bottom line, you're better off suspending the game if things get too bad.

BTW, wouldn't this be a team technical?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Technically, you could, but you could also call a multiple foul - bottom line, you're better off suspending the game if things get too bad.

BTW, wouldn't this be a team technical?

Yup,charged to the team.No directs or indirects charged to anyone.

[Mark Dexter]

As a clarifying follow-up, any "bench" technical is indirectly assessed to the head coach. A bench technical is against a person on the bench, not the bench as a whole (you can't give a T to a piece of wood/metal/plastic).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by KingTripleJump
Can you give a T to a team for their out of control fans?

If so, would you give it to the bench or an indirect to the coach?

You can but you really shouldn't. See the rule below. Also, if you do, it is not an indirect to the coach. It's simply a team technical.

3-8-1
The officials shall:
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.
NOTE: The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized.

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
As a clarifying follow-up, any "bench" technical is indirectly assessed to the head coach. A bench technical is against a person on the bench, not the bench as a whole (you can't give a T to a piece of wood/metal/plastic).

Actually Mark, you can have a technical foul on the bench. In the play below, the T is assessed to the bench.

10.5 SITUATION G: Team A coaches and substitutes are all standing during a free throw by A1. The infraction is detected by the officials. How many technical fouls are assessed?
Ruling: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. One technical foul is charged to Team A and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach in this situation. (10-4-1g)

[crew]

recently i had a situation(highschool) where a fan was verbally abusing us(officials) he never said anything during a dead ball and always yapped when we had to concentrate on the play. it made it difficult for us to address him. about 2 weeks later he came to my next game. as i pregamed i told my partners the situation. "this guy has no rope. he gets warned and then ejected from the building." 2 min into the first period he started up just as a call was made and the action was at a halt. i looked at him and said "not tonight-no more." he loudly said, "what are you gonna do?" i then called for the administrator and had him removed. later i found out he was a member of our association, his son was on one of the teams, and he was an administrator of the opposing school.

[DrakeM]

I threw a fan out of a game earlier this year.
Following a tech on the visting coach, as I'm in transition to lead, this fan starts flinging F-bombs my way.
It's enough to "break my concentration". I try to ignore but
the insults and F-bombs keep coming. So I hit the whistle,
point to him and tell him to get out. He look back at me and says "are you serious? You can't throw me out!"
To which I reply "watch me!"
To make along story short, come to find out later that the visiting coach that I had "T'd" and subsequently tossed, was his Dad.
Now, my only regret in handling the situation was that I didn't go to the table and have management take care of it.
But at that the time, he pissed me off so bad, I just reacted.
I've been reffing for quite a while. In gyms with 10 people, and in buildings with thousands, and I have never
heard those things directly said to me.
I personally am tired of fans thinking they have free reign
to abuse officials as if it's part and parcel of having a ticket.
In fact I have gotten into a bad habit lately of talking back to fans that I feel are out of line. (notice I said BAD habit!)
A couple of weeks ago, my partner and I were standing together during a T-O when one of the fans started griping about one thing or another. We were discussing something else and started laughing. Well, this "genius" from the stands says "oh yeah, laugh it up." So now he has my ear!
A few seconds later I hear this fan say, "I'm gonna kick your a**! Now I can't just stand there. I walk over to him and say, "what did you say!?" to which he replies "what?"
So I mention that I heard him say "something" about kicking someones a**. Of course he denies it and claims he was talking to another fan. RIIGGGGHHTTT!
Game administration was over quite quickly and handled the situation.
Like I said, I know this is not recommended behavior, but I thought the stories were good nonetheless.
Drake

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by DrakeM
In fact I have gotten into a bad habit lately of talking back to fans that I feel are out of line. (notice I said BAD habit!)

Dave would be proud!

[Hawks Coach]

We had a fan problem at a recent tournament (hosted by my club) that was compounded by the very behavior that Drakem references. This is decidely a poor habit as he admits. In my experience, it does nothing to help and probably worsens a bad situation.

Remember, referees must be impartial and focussed on the activities on the floor. While all of you should meet the former criteria, you can lose the appearance of impartiality when you begin to engage non-participants or behave in any manner which could lead one to believe you are not taking the game seriously. For the sake of the participants in the game (which is why we all do this in the end), you must maintain the proper appearance as well as the proper attitude.

Engaging the crowd by definition takes more of your focus from the action on the floor than any fan comments can. You begin to focus your mind on what is being said and how you are going to respond, raher than focussing on what's happening and what may happen next on the floor. You are already not reffing at your potential when you do this, because you are dedicating part of your conscious effort to activities away from the floor.

I guarantee you that I will speak to any player that I catch responding to the crowd rather than the game - it is as bad for them as it is for you. I want them to shut out the distractions and play ball, and I expect my referees to ignore the fans and ref, unless the conduct is so detrimental that they need to get someone out of there. In that case, I expect them to find cgame management, talk to the coaches, etc., handle the sitch and get back to reffing.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Jan 4th, 2002 at 11:34 AM]

[Mark Padgett]

At a camp long ago (I think it was run by Dr. Naismith), I was told to erect an invisible soundproof curtain behind each bench and ignore any noises that came from behind the curtain.

It's great advice, but unfortunately we are human and it doesn't always work.

[Dan_ref]

The one & only time I had a fan tossed I remembered to have
game security do it. No muss, no fuss, during a dead ball
I pointed the guy out & it was taken care of. He was
hustled out so quickly he left without his coat, and it
was a cold night. Later in the game the guys kid came up
to me & apologized. Very sad. As Drake says have security
do their job but it's not easy to remember in the heat of
the moment.

A few weeks ago during a Saturday afternoon HS game there
was 1 guy sitting alone in the bleachers at mid court who
just kept making comments about the officating. Probably A Dad. Not loud, not obnoxious but there couldn't have been more than 80 people in a large gym so it was easy to hear
him. As I was preparing to inbound the ball to start the
second half I said to no one in particular "I hear ya, and
I'm ignoring ya." The player inbounding the ball looked at me and said "Wha?" The guy sitting behind me laughed.

One more. This happened at a kids CYO game. One kids mom
had this really loud, high pitched shrill voice. "Three
seconds! Three seconds" "And one!" "Call it both ways!"
You know the type. So A1 is trapped by the mid court
line, and my friend starts yelling "Help him! Go and
help him! He needs help!" A1 loses the ball, as I go
past the bench I say to coach B "Now we know which one is
*her* kid."



[Edited by Dan_ref on Jan 4th, 2002 at 01:31 PM]

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
At a camp long ago (I think it was run by Dr. Naismith), I was told to erect an invisible soundproof curtain behind each bench and ignore any noises that came from behind the curtain.

It's great advice, but unfortunately we are human and it doesn't always work.

Did they say where to buy one of those?

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
I guarantee you that I will speak to any player that I catch responding to the crowd rather than the game - it is as bad for them as it is for you. I want them to shut out the distractions and play ball, and I expect my referees to ignore the fans and ref, unless the conduct is so detrimental that they need to get someone out of there. In that case, I expect them to find cgame management, talk to the coaches, etc., handle the sitch and get back to reffing.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Jan 4th, 2002 at 11:34 AM]

I agree with "Coach" here.... "Ignore-(non-particip)-ants is blissful"

BTW: Now marketing the invisible, sound-proofing curtian! ACT NOW, and I will throw in a new and improved "Fan Muzzler" at no extra charge.!

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by williebfree

I agree with "Coach" here.... "Ignore-(non-particip)-ants is blissful"

BTW: Now marketing the invisible, sound-proofing curtian! ACT NOW, and I will throw in a new and improved "Fan Muzzler" at no extra charge.!

If you develop a fan muzzler or the soundproof curtain, please make sure that it also eliminates all "coaching" advice emanating from the bleacher seats. Supportive cheers will be accepted!

[ChuckElias]

I try my darndest to ignore the fans, although it's not easy. And sometimes, to be honest, they can be genuinely funny. In 9 years of officiating basketball, I've only made a couple comments to fans.

However, I also officiate lacrosse; and lax is an entirely different animal from basketball. The game is different, the attitudes of the players are different, and the attitudes of the officials are also very different.

Anyway, my favorite fan interaction came while I was reffing a youth lax game. The parents stand right on the sideline and there was one particular mom who was yelling the whole game. And she knew absolutely nothing. Her poor husband was so embarrassed, but obviously would get in deep trouble if he told her to shut up. At one point during a play that occurred in the opposite half of the field from her, she yells "He was in the crease!!" I slowly backed up and without looking at her said simply, "That's really amazing that you can see his big toe from 75 yards away!" then continued to my new position. Her husband then did get her to quiet down a little.

A couple weeks later, I'm back at the same field, and sure enough, the same mom is there. Ball rolls OOB right in front of her and she yells "That's blue!! That's blue!!"

I announce loudly "White", then softer "Nice to see you again". Then blew the whistle and I was on my way.

Maybe you had to be there, but it was a very funny moment for me. I don't think she really likes me very much.

Chuck