Pushing/Posting

[rainmaker]

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called. The other coaches WERE adjusting, and helping their kids, and this coach was so far out of line I kinda felt sorry for his players. I don't mean he was out of line in terms of his behavior or his words or actions, he didn't do much yelling or whining, but he was so wrong about the rules and what he was teaching his kids was so far off base.

I had a different partner for each of the games, and all three of us were very consistent, and were really trying to pay close attention to the post, so that it wouldn't get out of control. We'd call it and the kid would quit, and then he'd go into a time out, and when he came back onto the court, he'd be shoving again. It was obvious, the coach was telling him to keep pushing. I even saw once when his direct opponent was demonstrating to him about displacement.

I suppose we did all we could. I'm just trying to work on optimizing my talking and I'm wishing I could learn a little something from this experience (besides not to do any more tournaments where the players can't foul out.)

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea. . . but. . .

FWIW, I agree with Jurrassic and Dan_Ref. Don't teach, don't coach. And don't try to save a stupid coach from himself at this level. Hopefully, in the Fall, the kid will have a coach who knows a little more about what he or she is doing.

I suppose we did all we could. I'm just trying to work on optimizing my talking

"Straight up!" "No push!" "Get the arm off!" "Get the leg out!" That's about all I use and it tends to work. Even if they don't really know how to play defense, they can respond to simple commands like those.

[BktBallRef]

It's also not your job to keep explaining the same thing over and over again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called.

And you let people know how good ball should be called by calling good ball. End of story.

Your calls themselves do all the speaking that needs to be done. Trying to coach the kids and also coach their coach isn't part of your mandate as an official.

JMHO.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, I know it's not my job to teach lessons, but at these lower levels (kids who would be playing freshman ball next year), I guess I just feel like it IS my job to let folks know how good ball should be called.

I see, you want a job where you get to teach the young players how to play the game. hmmmm....what could that be...?



Here's the problem with your attitude: You mother a coach for 2 entire games, holding his hand, nurturing him, hugging him, trying to get him to see it your way....then he runs into someone who nails his @ss to the wall just as he's expecting the same high maintenance up close and personal treatment.

Is that fair to the coach? I don't think so.

So next time you want to play nurse-maid to a whining PITA coach let him know up front that you just happen to be a softy and most other officials wouldn't put up with his crap for more than 2 seconds.

This way I won't have to hear him whining across the court that all he wanted was an explanation as I'm walking to the other end to administer the 2 FTs to his opponent.

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

And most of the time you're explaining it to someone who's only reason for asking in the first place is to try and get you to start calling the plays the way that they want it called. They're just trying to influence your calls to gain an advantage.

Silly monkeys.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I see, you want a job where you get to teach the young players how to play the game. hmmmm....what could that be...?



Here's the problem with your attitude: You mother a coach for 2 entire games, holding his hand, nurturing him, hugging him, trying to get him to see it your way....then he runs into someone who nails his @ss to the wall just as he's expecting the same high maintenance up close and personal treatment.

Is that fair to the coach? I don't think so.

So next time you want to play nurse-maid to a whining PITA coach let him know up front that you just happen to be a softy and most other officials wouldn't put up with his crap for more than 2 seconds.

This way I won't have to hear him whining across the court that all he wanted was an explanation as I'm walking to the other end to administer the 2 FTs to his opponent.

(You aint the only one btw...entirely too much explaining going on by lots of people.)

Well, as usual, you're over-stating your case, but I get your point. I didn't say I wanted to talk more. I just have been working on talking and not-talking, and I"m trying to keep working on it. I get what you're saying about not talking so much, but it's just not my style, and hasn't worked well for me in the past. I was asking if there was anything more or different I might have said, but their probably wasn't. Now, will you just stfu, if I do too?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Well, as usual, you're over-stating your case, but I get your point.

I'm overstating? You wrote this, I didn't.

Next game, same gold team, different opponent. SAME EXACT GAME STYLE, SAME FOULS ON SAME POST PLAYER!! Same explanations. Second half, again same stuff, same calls, same stupid excuses. no questions, no attempt to understand or adjust, no learning at all. I was tempted to toss the coach just for being an idiot!!

Not one game, but two games of explaining?

And you want advice on what more you could have said?

Here's advice: call your game and don't apologize for it. One of the best officials I ever knew was fond of saying "This aint a debate coach, it's a basketball game".

Try it.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm overstating? You wrote this, I didn't.

Not one game, but two games of explaining?

And you want advice on what more you could have said?

Here's advice: call your game and don't apologize for it. One of the best officials I ever knew was fond of saying "This aint a debate coach, it's a basketball game".

Try it.

I explained twice in the first game, once in the second. I didn't ask what more, but IF there was something more OR DIFFERENT.

Yea, you're overstating. The whole PITA whining thing in your last post was quite over stated.

I did call my game, and I didn't apologize. Now, I'm calling my post and I'm not apologizing. But it's not working. See? I need to work on how to talk, not how much or how little. That's what I"m trying to work on. HOW to talk.

Obviously, my stfu didn't work, but sometimes it can, right? SO HOW DO I TALK? Get it??

[mplagrow]

Summer tournaments with rules adaptations suck. The only rule that applies is, "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Obviously, my stfu didn't work, but sometimes it can, right? SO HOW DO I TALK? Get it??

Go back to your very first post in this thread. Your initial response to a coach's question was "Coach, he was pushing and clearing out." After you say that, STFU. You answered his question. You also told the player what he did wrong with the same response. Anything after that is a debate. Don't do debates.

Get it now?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

SO HOW DO I TALK?

Don't.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Now, will you just stfu,...

My, My, My rainmaker...how far we have progressed.

Atta girl.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

My, My, My rainmaker...how far we have progressed.

Atta girl.

Or is that DIGRESSED.

[canuckref]

I don't see what more you could have done to get the point across. Displacement, pushing, shoving, hands in the back, knee in the leg, elbow in the side...what didn't this coach/player understand? I might suggest he read the rulebook closely after the game.

I strongly disagree with the "no talking" philosophy espoused by some here. I have always found you can manage games better with a few carefully said words versus a stony silence. We need to understand that many coaches do not have a good grasp on the rules. Telling a player the correct rule only makes the game better for him/her and the next game official they have. I like hearing well timed, concise descriptions for players and coaches to explain common violations and fouls from an official...it tells me they give a sh*t, versus the cloistered monk school of silence officiating...this does not help the game.