Carrying a weak partner

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Who said anything about thinking about it?

To me foul counts are no different than being aware of who is jawing at each other and nipping that in the bud.

Do not blow things out of portion, what we call "game management" are things that we should be aware of in order to keep things smooth. If a coach is constantly gripping about something you should address it eventually or things might go in a direction you do not want it to go.

Peace

BS...There is no reason to be aware of foul counts, none.

Coaches yapping about it, you address the yapping, not the foul count causing the yapping.

As for game management, I'll nip that in the bud too.

Coach A is yapping about foul counts...suddenly JRut "finds" a couple of fouls on team B, since he's now aware of a foul disperity...coach B sees this and you know what happens?

Now you have two coaches yapping...your game management just got harder.

I suppose the howler monkey yelling 3 seconds every trip has you scanning the paint, making sure you haven't missed the big guy toasting marshmellows, too?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

BS...There is no reason to be aware of foul counts, none.

Coaches yapping about it, you address the yapping, not the foul count causing the yapping.

I suppose the howler monkey yelling 3 seconds every trip has you scanning the paint, making sure you haven't missed the big guy toasting marshmellows, too?

Because it is not important to you does not make it not important for other officials. BTW, it is very important to keep your behind out of having a correctable error (which has happen to me based on what the foul board says).

Also if a coach is yelling 3 seconds every time up the court it will be addressed. Then again most coaches at the level I work get the hint and it is almost never addressed.

Zeb, you and I have already established we do not see eye to eye on things. Why would this be any different?

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because it is not important to you does not make it not important for other officials. BTW, it is very important to keep your behind out of having a correctable error (which has happen to me based on what the foul board says).

Also if a coach is yelling 3 seconds every time up the court it will be addressed. Then again most coaches at the level I work get the hint and it is almost never addressed.

Rocky, you and I have already established we do not see eye to eye on things. Why would this be any different?

Peace

Let's see...we are talking about being aware of a disparity in foul counts and you spin it to being aware of the bonus...typical.

You were the one who said, you will be aware and won't be passing on something you could call against the team on the plus side of 8-1...let's not back track now.

Just admit it, you want to get a coach off your back by making a cosmetic change in the foul count, instead of calling what's there and handling the howler monkey.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Let's see...we are talking about being aware of a disparity in foul counts and you spin it to being aware of the bonus...typical.

Is the foul count not about more than just one issue? Bonus and when we shoot bonus is something coaches tend to bring up. And if you mess up, it is going to be an issue as well as answering questions about, "Why are they shooting the bonus and we are not?"

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You were the one who said, you will be aware and won't be passing on something you could call against the team on the plus side of 8-1...let's not back track now.

If you are truly an experienced official, you know we pass on many things. Just like the play at the end of Game 3, we make decisions not to call certain plays because they do not pass the "smell test." Maybe I have called an illegal screen earlier in the game and I for some reason passed on other screens that might have been suspect (but were really fouls) and I and my partners swallowed our whistles because there was hardly any advantage or I did not get a good look at them. So as a competent official that might have missed something, I am not going to be fooled the next time in to not calling something that was there. If you read what I said, we might get to 20 to 1 before I call a foul on the team with 1 foul. But at least I want to know in my mind and with my partners (when we talk later in the locker room)

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Just admit it, you want to get a coach off your back by making a cosmetic change in the foul count, instead of calling what's there and handling the howler monkey.

I live in the western suburbs of Chicago. I worked this past year in Quincy, Illinois and as north as Grayslake or Antioch (use a map). I also worked two games in the Quad Cities and paid more in gas to get there than I did working the game. Now ask yourself (after looking at a map) how many coaches did I pass to work those games? Ask yourself how many times will I see these coaches again in my career? Unless the live in the Chicago area, likely I might not see them again in the next 4 or 5 years. And there are a couple of conferences in this area I do not work. Why would I give a damn about some coach that I will not see again?

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is the foul count not about more than just one issue? Bonus and when we shoot bonus is something coaches tend to bring up. And if you mess up, it is going to be an issue as well as answering questions about, "Why are they shooting the bonus and we are not?"



If you are truly an experienced official, you know we pass on many things. Just like the play at the end of Game 3, we make decisions not to call certain plays because they do not pass the "smell test." Maybe I have called an illegal screen earlier in the game and I for some reason passed on other screens that might have been suspect (but were really fouls) and I and my partners swallowed our whistles because there was hardly any advantage or I did not get a good look at them. So as a competent official that might have missed something, I am not going to be fooled the next time in to not calling something that was there. If you read what I said, we might get to 20 to 1 before I call a foul on the team with 1 foul. But at least I want to know in my mind and with my partners (when we talk later in the locker room)



I live in the western suburbs of Chicago. I worked this past year in Quincy, Illinois and as north as Grayslake or Antioch (use a map). I also worked two games in the Quad Cities and paid more in gas to get there than I did working the game. Now ask yourself (after looking at a map) how many coaches did I pass to work those games? Ask yourself how many times will I see these coaches again in my career? Unless the live in the Chicago area, likely I might not see them again in the next 4 or 5 years. And there are a couple of conferences in this area I do not work. Why would I give a damn about some coach that I will not see again?

Peace

Ahh, yes when all else fails post the resume.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Ahh, yes when all else fails post the resume.

Usually a resume involves dates, specific conferences and even level. And where I work and when I work affects how I look at what I do. Sorry, I do not work in a 10 mile radius and everything a coach says affects me to the point I become stagnant. So when you say I want a coach off my back, then why would I care if I might not see a coach ever again?

I worked a game in Peoria, Illinois on Sunday (I must emphasize it was a damn summer league game that pays less than what I will make where I currently live) because I was near the town and I was asked to by a friend of mine to work with them. I guess that is a resume issue to you as well.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Usually a resume involves dates, specific conferences and even level. And where I work and when I work affects how I look at what I do. Sorry, I do not work in a 10 mile radius and everything a coach says affects me to the point I become stagnant. So when you say I want a coach off my back, then why would I care if I might not see a coach ever again?

I worked a game in Peoria, Illinois on Sunday (I must emphasize it was a damn summer league game that pays less than what I will make where I currently live) because I was near the town and I was asked to by a friend of mine to work with them. I guess that is a resume issue to you as well.

Peace

Please, whenever you get cornered we see the same old tired here's where I work, followed by the equally tired, "Well that may be where you are but around here."

As if the sun rises and sets on the Illinois...guess what? Nobody gives a crap where your games are or what they do in your area, doesn't change the fact you are full of crap.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rocky, you and I have already established we do not see eye to eye on things. Why would this be any different?

Peace

Hey!! How did I get drug into this mess? You're arguing with blindzebra, not me...we haven't disagreed about anything in a long time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hey!! How did I get drug into this mess? You're arguing with blindzebra, not me...we haven't disagreed about anything in a long time.

Sorry Rocky, I am going back from one post to another. I will correct the post.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because it is not important to you does not make it not important for other officials. BTW, it is very important to keep your behind out of having a correctable error (which has happen to me based on what the foul board says).

I'm with Rut on this one. Yes, 99 times out of 100, the disparity is just because of how the teams are playing - in this case, knowing about it might let me address the coach if he complains about it and might keep my crew out of trouble. Also, I don't have a problem with looking at my calls and wondering if there IS something I'm missing. I'm not going to invent or ignore fouls, but maybe I've been stuck on one end of the court for a while and I'm just not getting good angles that night. Knowing about that in advance can help me adjust and make better calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I'm with Rut on this one. Yes, 99 times out of 100, the disparity is just because of how the teams are playing - in this case, knowing about it might let me address the coach if he complains about it and might keep my crew out of trouble. Also, I don't have a problem with looking at my calls and wondering if there IS something I'm missing. I'm not going to invent or ignore fouls, but maybe I've been stuck on one end of the court for a while and I'm just not getting good angles that night. Knowing about that in advance can help me adjust and make better calls.

This is exactly what I have been saying. I guess it is wrong to evaluate the job you are doing out there. There are times on calls coaches have a point. I have yet to officiate a perfect game.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Now you have two coaches yapping...your game management just got harder.

I suppose the howler monkey yelling 3 seconds every trip has you scanning the paint, making sure you haven't missed the big guy toasting marshmellows, too?

This is where that software eliminating the noise by whining coaches and fans would come in handy I am going to google for that stuff

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

BS...There is no reason to be aware of foul counts, none.

Coaches yapping about it, you address the yapping, not the foul count causing the yapping.

As for game management, I'll nip that in the bud too.

Coach A is yapping about foul counts...suddenly JRut "finds" a couple of fouls on team B, since he's now aware of a foul disperity...coach B sees this and you know what happens?

Now you have two coaches yapping...your game management just got harder.

It is clear that you want to twist what I said. I never said anything about "finding" a foul. I also did not say that the coach influences the decisions I make. Here we do three person almost exclusively and there are times you are right in front of a coach. They tend to ask questions or make statements with you standing in front of them. Sometimes I say nothing but just give a look.

You always want to turn something I say into a nefarious or sinister reasoning. It is not like Jeff or I are talking about this in a bubble. The camp we both attended last year these things were openly talked about and every person talking about them were much higher level officials than both of us at this current time.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is clear that you want to twist what I said. I never said anything about "finding" a foul. I also did not say that the coach influences the decisions I make. Here we do three person almost exclusively and there are times you are right in front of a coach. They tend to ask questions or make statements with you standing in front of them. Sometimes I say nothing but just give a look.

You always want to turn something I say into a nefarious or sinister reasoning. It is not like Jeff or I are talking about this in a bubble. The camp we both attended last year these things were openly talked about and every person talking about them were much higher level officials than both of us at this current time.

Peace

Oh, really?

"Also if I have 8 to 1 in fouls, I certainly do not want to miss any fouls against the team that has 8."

Sounds like finding a foul to me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Oh, really?

"Also if I have 8 to 1 in fouls, I certainly do not want to miss any fouls against the team that has 8."

Sounds like finding a foul to me.

I understand the concept is over your head. I will stop trying to explain it to you.

Peace