New AP throw in rule

[dkmz17]

Well, I guess am not in the camp of giving a "complete" throw in. I would think that the team receiving the throw in got the "advantage" or the "reward" of the AP arrow when the ball was not given to team B for a throw in to begin with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Well, I guess am not in the camp of giving a "complete" throw in. I would think that the team receiving the throw in got the "advantage" or the "reward" of the AP arrow when the ball was not given to team B for a throw in to begin with.

How can they be rewarded with something that they had in the first place? They had the arrow. Why should they lose it because of a violation by the other team?

That logic makes no sense at all.

[sseltser]

Why isn't the throwin after the kicked ball another AP throwin?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Why isn't the throwin after the kicked ball another AP throwin?

What is the penalty for a kicked ball?

Answer: a throw-in for the other team.

The AP is a non-factor. Changing the arrow is not part of the kicked-ball penalty.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

However, under the new rule, Team B suffers a "penalty" for kicking the ball on a throw in.

Ah....that's nothing new. Team B has ALWAYS suffered a penalty for kicking the ball on a throw-in.

Originally Posted by sseltser

Why isn't the throwin after the kicked ball another AP throwin?

An AP throw-in occurs after a held ball situation, not after the ball is kicked.

BTW folks, the word is

SENSE,
NOT SINCE!

"That doesn't make any SENSE!" Not "That doesn't make any SINCE!"

Good grief!

[sseltser]

Team A has an AP throw-in. The throw-in starts when the ball is at the disposal of A1.

The OP has the throw-in immediately kicked by B1. This tells us that the first throw-in did not end, since the ball was not legally touched by another player (rule change) 4-42-5.

More specifically, 6-4-4 says that "The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates."

Neither of these happened, so the AP throw-in hasn't ended. When the next throw-in is completed, the arrow should switch.


We also have to look at 6-4-5 which states, "The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow."

This tells us to switch the arrow is the throw-in team violates, not to switch for a foul by either team, but doesn't instruct in the case of a defensive team violation.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by sseltser

"The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates."

Neither of these happened, so the AP throw-in hasn't ended. When the next throw-in is completed, the arrow should switch.

Seltser, this is incorrect. Others have tried to point this out, but I guess I'll take a crack at it. Since the AP throw-in didn't end, the arrow is not switched. The next throw-in is NOT an AP throw-in. It is the result of the kick. Since it's not an AP throw-in, the arrow does not come into play at all. After the kick, there is simply a designated spot throw-in, and the arrow will not change.

This tells us to switch the arrow is the throw-in team violates, not to switch for a foul by either team, but doesn't instruct in the case of a defensive team violation.

That's because the defensive violation carries its own penalty, which does not involve the AP arrow.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Seltser, this is incorrect. Others have tried to point this out, but I guess I'll take a crack at it. Since the AP throw-in didn't end, the arrow is not switched. The next throw-in is NOT an AP throw-in. It is the result of the kick. Since it's not an AP throw-in, the arrow does not come into play at all. After the kick, there is simply a designated spot throw-in, and the arrow will not change.

That's because the defensive violation carries its own penalty, which does not involve the AP arrow.

Didn't work, Skippy.

BktBallRef is gonna give it a shot now, but it doesn't look good. .

[AFHusker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"That doesn't make any SENSE!" Not "That doesn't make any SINCE!"

Good grief!

I sensed someone saying this since some people here don't make any sense when they give their two cents.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by AFHusker

I sensed someone saying this since some people here don't make any sense when they give their two cents.

Is there more?? LOL

[hbioteach]

AP throw in by team A KICKED BY B1. ap throw in never ended. Arrow stays for A. Another AP throwin by A legally touched. Now arrow is switched to B.
basicly, kick is like the orginal throwin never happened.

I THINK THIS IS LIKE A KICK BALL NOT GIVING UP THE RIGHT TO RUN THE BASELINE.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Neither of these happened, so the AP throw-in hasn't ended. When the next throw-in is completed, the arrow should switch.

We also have to look at 6-4-5 which states, "The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow."

This tells us to switch the arrow is the throw-in team violates, not to switch for a foul by either team, but doesn't instruct in the case of a defensive team violation.

Wrong salsa. Wrong.

Originally Posted by hbioteach

AP throw in by team A KICKED BY B1. ap throw in never ended. Arrow stays for A. Another AP throwin by A legally touched. Now arrow is switched to B.
basicly, kick is like the orginal throwin never happened.

Wrong HBO. Wrong.

[sseltser]

Wrong salsa. Wrong.

Wrong HBO. Wrong.

Any chance of you backing up these with some reasoning?

I'm not saying I am completely right, but there is nothing in the rules that say that the a defensive violation on the throw-in cause the arrow to not switch. It mentions fouls and offensive violations, but not defensive violations.

Why can't the next throw-in also be an AP throw-in?

6-4-5:
"The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow."

Since none of these happened and the original throw-in has not ended, the opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in still exists.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

SENSE,
NOT SINCE!

"That doesn't make any SENSE!" Not "That doesn't make any SINCE!"

Good grief!

THank you sir for clarifying that. If I had to see "since & sense" misapplied one more time before completely reading this thread I probably would've made the FONT bigger then what you did.

Here's one even better. SINCE some (o/s) on this forum never read a rule book, it makes no SENSE for them to post on this discussion board. I had to get that out.. Now I'll continue on to page 3 of this thread.

[truerookie]

I find it hard to believe that some of us would actually think that a violating team is being penalized for an intentional act such as kicking a ball. Like the most have stated already. The AP throw-in was not "legally" completed thus the arrow should not be switched. my 2 cents