Over Throw Rule ASA

[SB22]

Help, Over throw rule ASA states if ball is over thrown 2 bases from last base possess. If a player is going back to first and the ball is over thrown since they last possess first base before the caught ball they should get 3rd correct?? Anyone know the exact rule number?

[Edited by SB22 on Aug 9th, 2004 at 05:29 PM]

[Bandit]

#1. You were the player who threw the ball #2. Your team lost because of the rule. # 3 You got tossed because you did'nt know the rule. Another reason ? Am I close ?

[DaveASA/FED]

The rule in ASA and Fed, is two bases from your position when the ball is released. That is for a thrown ball from the field (one base on a pitched ball that enters DBT). The base you are going to or from does not matter,it's where you were standing (freeze the runner in your mind) at the time of the throw (when the ball is released from the fielders hand).

[Bandit]

Dave, be carefull with your wording here. It does matter where your standing and where your going as far as the runner is concerned. If the runner is on first and comes off of the base such as on a fly ball to the outfield, sees that it is a catch and starts back to first as he or she is not going to attempt a tag up when the outfield oncorks a wild throw into the stands....just because the runner was "headed or going to" first base this "not" mean the runer only gets second. Agreed ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Bandit
Dave, be carefull with your wording here. It does matter where your standing and where your going as far as the runner is concerned. If the runner is on first and comes off of the base such as on a fly ball to the outfield, sees that it is a catch and starts back to first as he or she is not going to attempt a tag up when the outfield oncorks a wild throw into the stands....just because the runner was "headed or going to" first base this "not" mean the runer only gets second. Agreed ?

Dave's wording seemed just fine to me. As he said, it is the position of the runner that determines to what base that runner will be awarded should the thrown ball leave play or become blocked.

[DaveASA/FED]

Bandit,
I think we are on the same page. You look where the runner is standing when they throw the ball and she get's to go two bases ahead of that, between home and 1st you get 2nd, on 1st or between 1st and 2nd gets 3rd, on 2nd or between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and home you get home.

[CecilOne]

And then you have to say "time of the throw" 3 or 4 times for the player and then "it doesn't matter" 1 or 2 times to the coach who claims the throw came from the infield.

Had a similar situation last night in league play. Men's USSSA Class D league. 1 out, runner on 1st. Batter hits a pop fly to RCF or LCF (can't remember which one, but it was one of the two). Runner goes about 10 feet down the path to see if the fielder will catch it, which he does. Runner starts to walk back to 1st instead of "challenging" the thrower, but the thrower (who probably had a beer or two before the game) decides to throw anyway, throwing it pass the 1st baseman, and it hits the fence with the kind of roll that puts it over the fence and out of play.

I send the runner onto 3rd, defensive coach (who is also first baseman) comes up to me saying I was wrong. He starts saying the 1+1 stuff, and I said that's not even in the rules, plus told him, it's 2 bases from where the runner was at the time of the throw, which is 1st base. He didn't like it, and didn't say more.

[Roger Greene]

I don't do slow pitch, but USSSA is a bit unique in the base award on a ball thrown to dead ball territory.

See the SLOWPITCH rule copied here:

EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every Base Runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.

I believe that the old 1+1 may still be alive in USSSA slow pitch!!!!!
Here is the USSSA rule site :

http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-gen...1204.htm#rule8

Roger Greene

[Bagman62]

Roger,

You are correct the awarding of bases in USSSA is different.

Two bases from the last base occupied is the same as two bases from the runners position at the time the throw is released. ASA allows a runner to return to tag up.

USSSA uses the language FIRST Throw, First Attempt, Second Attempt and specifies a situation where the award will start at Batter and Base Runners position at the time of the pitch, it also says "unless required to retouch" but does not use any specific language regarding starting point when retouched. It also uses different language for throws from the infioeld and throws from the outfield.

It has bee years since I called U Trip but I found when teams participated in tournaments sponsored by different governing bodies if you did not know the rule differences you better make the call, explain the call/rule when questioned and sell like hell. This is where good selling and a good reputation will get you through a long hot afternoon.

[hahnhdwe]

I started umping ASA about 18 years ago on a field with no out of play fences. This reqiured knowng the ball out of play rule as it would happen many times a game. I even remeber writing to Merle Butler for a ruling on the runner not tagging at 1B on this play. It still amazes me when I have a player that says 1+1 becuase I have never read that in the ASA book(maybe it was that way prior to my starting). It seems from your comments that the USSSA book even says two base but does not specify if direction runner is heading makes a diff. I still can't believe how many players cannot understand this rule. I always tell them if you think two bases from the last base touched instead of 1+1 it is not that confusing.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by hahnhdwe
the last base touched

Last touched can still be confusing if a base is missed. "Position of the runners" is the point from which bases are awarded, just like ASA 8-5G says.

[hahnhdwe]

thanks for correct wording Dakota. If BR misses 1B and is between 1B & 2B I would award 3B. It would still be up to defense to appeal missed 1B if BR does not return. BR would still have right to return to touch 1B(8.5g2). Question IF the ball is dead and the defense appeals before runner returns to first would you then have to wait to see if runner will return before calling him out. Does this mean the defense could lose their appeal by tipping the runner off that they know he missed.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by hahnhdwe
thanks for correct wording Dakota. If BR misses 1B and is between 1B & 2B I would award 3B. It would still be up to defense to appeal missed 1B if BR does not return. BR would still have right to return to touch 1B(8.5g2). Question IF the ball is dead and the defense appeals before runner returns to first would you then have to wait to see if runner will return before calling him out. Does this mean the defense could lose their appeal by tipping the runner off that they know he missed.

The runner may return until he has advanced to or beyond the first awarded base. In your situation, that would be 2B. Once the runner has touched an awarded base after the umpire has made the award, he may not return to a missed base. Before hearing a dead ball appeal, the runner must be allowed to complete his base running. Once he has stopped on his final base, then hear the appeal. And, yes that does mean the defense can tip the runner, who then can return to retouch before the appeal will be heard.

[hahnhdwe]

Dakota thanks for the response.
ball hit to outfield F7 throws ball while BR between 1B & 2B after missing 1B. BR is one step from second when ball enters DBT. The ball is dead but runners momentum has taken him past second(the first awarded base). The umpire has not even awarded it yet. Does this mean that he can return to first to retouch?.
It is funny that when you think something will never happen how it does. I have not had this happen but it could. That is why discussion and preperation will make you ready for the odd things that will take place.