New AP throw in rule

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I know I am joining the fun very late in this thread, but when the thread first started I was in second day four straight days of officiating at team camps and I finally had the strength to read it just now. Boy, did I miss out on a lot of Old School bashing.

First, I want to commend everybody who did a fine job of giving Old School the business on this play. The play was not a difficult one but everybody knows how OS likes to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Second, as someone who believes that Alternating Possession is an abomination upon the game (the only bigger abomination upon the game is Old School), the best way to get rid of these goofy scenarios is to bring back the jump ball for all held ball situations.

Let the fun begin.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Second, as someone who believes that Alternating Possession is an abomination upon the game (the only bigger abomination upon the game is Old School), the best way to get rid of these goofy scenarios is to bring back the jump ball for all held ball situations.

And after every basket too....

Yup, I'd love to see us actually jump 'em up in one of those JV wimmens games where they have forty-eleven held balls.

Mark, please do me a favor. Next time you're out with The Preacher, ask him to please give you a smack upside the head for me.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

nfhs 6.3.2

When the referee is ready and until the ball is tossed, nonjumpers shall not:
a. Move onto the center restraining circle
b. Change positions around the center restraining circle

nfhs 6.2

The ball becomes live when
a. On a jump ball, the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)

NCAA 6.4.8 and 6.1.4a similar

Just sayin

Thanks for the reference. I tried to think of a violation that could occur before the ball becomes live.

BTW, if tis happens to me, I'm simply stopping and telling everyone to get set. It's a weak call IMHO. But you're correct, it is a rule. I could see OS calling it if he knew anything about the rules.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thanks for the reference. I tried to think of a violation that could occur before the ball becomes live.

BTW, if tis happens to me, I'm simply stopping and telling everyone to get set. It's a weak call IMHO. But yopu're correct, it is a rule. I could see OS calling it if he knew anything about the rules.

I think it's a pretty weak way to start a game myself. All I would ask at the first dead ball is "why?".

If it bothers you that much blow the whistle to check if the clock operator is ready to go and wait for the wanderer to settle down.

But what do I know?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

as someone who believes that Alternating Possession is an abomination upon the game (the only bigger abomination upon the game is Old School), the best way to get rid of these goofy scenarios is to bring back the jump ball for all held ball situations.

Bring it on - except in girls levels below HS Varsity - where you can't tell if you are at a B game or a Swim meet for all the diving that is going on.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And after every basket too....

Yup, I'd love to see us actually jump 'em up in one of those JV wimmens games where they have forty-eleven held balls.

Mark, please do me a favor. Next time you're out with The Preacher, ask him to please give you a smack upside the head for me.

JR

You don't have to ask The Preacher to do it. My better half will gladly smack me upside the head forty-eleven times for you.

MTD, Sr.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

OS
There is no word smithing going on here - and it is not BS it is the RULE -

To address your point - That the arrow grant possession only - fine - But should I lose that possession because of something the other team did? That puts me at the disadvantage.
Example: Team A is awarded an AP throw in late in a very close game, with the ball at the disposal of the thrower - NCAA = team control -(so under your scenario the arrow changes) Now B1 reaches in and slaps the ball away from A1, -loss of team control - technical foul.
Shoot two free throws - Under NCAA you would go to point of interuption which was - AP throw in - correct- so now the arrow has changed to B so it is Team B ball - if you give the Ball to Team A it would be because the Throw in was not completed.

I'm definitely willing to debate NCAA rules, but for right now, let's stick with HS. In NFHS, TF goes back to the team offended. We'll come back to NCAA because I'm curious how they handle this.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That maybe the stupidest post I've ever read on this or any other forum.

"Beep, before the toss we got a violation."

Please explain exactly what violation can occur before the ball becomes live to start the game.

"Now, let's say for argument sake that before the ball became live, we had a kick ball violation on Team B."

Please explain exactly how can we have a kicked ball before the ball becomes live.

Once again, we're all dumber from having read an OS post.

Okay moron, Referee steps in to toss the ball, tells all players to freeze or hold your positions, before tossing the ball or after tossing the ball, B4 takes off and runs towards his basket. Beep! violation on B4 Team A ball.

Upon the throw-in following this violation. B3 kicks the throw-in pass from A1 to A3. That's how it happens moron. But I'm just saying for arguments sake.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I think it's a pretty weak way to start a game myself. All I would ask at the first dead ball is "why?".

If it bothers you that much blow the whistle to check if the clock operator is ready to go and wait for the wanderer to settle down.

But what do I know?

Don't forget Dan_Ref that teams have plays for the jump ball. Knowing that their player will probably win the tap for the ball, B4 takes off to the bucket while the toss is going up and the jumper taps it to him for a quick layup. I have seen this type of play several times. Inexperienced officials will not know what to do or call here. I try to mention this in my pregames but don't always remember too. Remember to watch the non-jumpers for this type of play.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Okay moron, Referee steps in to toss the ball, tells all players to freeze or hold your positions, before tossing the ball or after tossing the ball, B4 takes off and runs towards his basket. Beep! violation on B4 Team A ball.

Upon the throw-in following this violation. B3 kicks the throw-in pass from A1 to A3. That's how it happens moron. But I'm just saying for arguments sake.

Wrong and wrong.

Wish I could say nice try, but it wasn't.

F on content, D for effort.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Inexperienced officials will not know what to do or call here.

Whatever, you're the expert.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) Okay moron, Referee steps in to toss the ball, tells all players to freeze or hold your positions, before tossing the ball or after tossing the ball, B4 takes off and runs towards his basket. Beep! violation on B4 Team A ball.

2) Upon the throw-in following this violation. B3 kicks the throw-in pass from A1 to A3. That's how it happens moron. But I'm just saying for arguments sake.

1) OK, moron, why don't you tell us why you're calling a violation on B4? It's legal for anyone on the circle to back off the circle. You can't move ONTO or AROUND the circle.

2) What violation, moron? The one that you called that never happened? The phantom violation?

It just never freaking ends.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Old School

Okay moron, Referee steps in to toss the ball, tells all players to freeze or hold your positions, before tossing the ball or after tossing the ball, B4 takes off and runs towards his basket. Beep! violation on B4 Team A ball.

What's the violation??? I don't have one here.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Don't forget Dan_Ref that teams have plays for the jump ball. Knowing that their player will probably win the tap for the ball, B4 takes off to the bucket while the toss is going up and the jumper taps it to him for a quick layup. I have seen this type of play several times. Inexperienced officials will not know what to do or call here. I try to mention this in my pregames but don't always remember too. Remember to watch the non-jumpers for this type of play.

In your pregames you tell your partners to call a violation for something that is legal?

Inexperienced officials will still know that this isn't a violation. Rec League officials and trolls who have never owned a rule book in their lives will think(wrongfully) that it is a violation.

Interesting concept, Old School. Call violations on legal plays. I wonder if that'll catch on.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Old School

Okay moron, Referee steps in to toss the ball, tells all players to freeze or hold your positions, before tossing the ball or after tossing the ball, B4 takes off and runs towards his basket. Beep! violation on B4 Team A ball.

Assuming A4 isn't one of the two jumpers, how is this a violation? Give a RULES reference, please.

Upon the throw-in following this violation. B3 kicks the throw-in pass from A1 to A3. That's how it happens moron. But I'm just saying for arguments sake.

So what? Even had there been a violation, A didn't recieve that throw-in because of a held ball.