Block/Charge?

[Dan_ref]

Easy call.

Charge.

But's let's break this down...why did the L on the other side of the court take this call?

And am I the only one who can see the wheels spinning as he's walking to the table? Someone should have given him a coin to toss before reporting the foul.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Easy call.

Charge.

But's let's break this down...why did the L on the other side of the court take this call?

And am I the only one who can see the wheels spinning as he's walking to the table? Someone should have given him a coin to toss before reporting the foul.

The reason the new L took the call is because in a 2-person system, he had the best angle. The new Trail has no chance of getting that call right from where's he must come from.

No doubt he was thinking about what he was going to call, and I think he reason correctly. Not being right on top of the play, they had to have something on this play. Calling it on the defense was the safe call to make.

Now, you go and call offense, next thing you know, you got guys running up underneath each other the rest of the game. I'm not trying to find the needle in the haystack. We're going to keep it simple. Also, the defender should have gone for the steal of the ball instead of trying to draw the tough call from the official. Odds or not in the players favor to get the correct call here, but the way the offensive player turned and stepped, chances where better of stealing the ball here.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now, you go and call offense, next thing you know, you got guys running up underneath each other the rest of the game.

Whatinthehell are you talking about? There was no contact until after the player with the ball landed. There was nobody running up underneath anybody on this play. As usual, you don't understand the basic principles needed to make the correct call.

Obvious charge.

[JRutledge]

PC foul all the way.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

Now, you go and call offense, next thing you know, you got guys running up underneath each other the rest of the game. I'm not trying to find the needle in the haystack. We're going to keep it simple.

Let me understand your thinking here. You're going to base a call on how you THINK players will respond the rest of the game? Wouldn't it be safer to APPLY A RULE here? or at least try to reason through it based upon a rule or your interpretation of how the play relates to a rule? Isn't that kinda what officials do?

Are you really an official?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Let me understand your thinking here. You're going to base a call on how you THINK players will respond the rest of the game? Wouldn't it be safer to APPLY A RULE here? or at least try to reason through it based upon a rule or your interpretation of how the play relates to a rule?

You're trying to understand OS's thinking? Why would you want to?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Let me understand your thinking here. You're going to base a call on how you THINK players will respond the rest of the game? Wouldn't it be safer to APPLY A RULE here? or at least try to reason through it based upon a rule or your interpretation of how the play relates to a rule? Isn't that kinda what officials do?

Are you really an official?

Amazing, isn't it? I can see any official maybe missing a bang-bang call like this in real time. What I can't see is anybody trying to justify whatever call they made by using the nonsense that OS comes up with.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Amazing, isn't it? I can see any official maybe missing a bang-bang call like this in real time. What I can't see is anybody trying to justify whatever call they made by using the nonsense that OS comes up with.

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

I just had to say something. The rules are in place for a reason. Basketball is a contact sport. Safety is not a factor unless the rules spell it out. You cannot just make it up because you have a personal issue with safety. If the players want to be safe, play chess. This is a contact sport where people are trying to prevent movement. Next then you will tell us that you will call an illegal screen on a player because no one told the screener that a screen was coming. After all you have to maintain safety for a legal play because there is a possibility someone might get hurt right?

You are one of the most incompetent people I have ever read on this board. My God, when will you get a clue? It appears to be never.

Peace

[SmokeEater]

Its like a really bad car wreck! You just can't look away. Gee I hope no one gets hurt in there.......

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I just had to say something. The rules are in place for a reason. Basketball is a contact sport. Safety is not a factor unless the rules spell it out. You cannot just make it up because you have a personal issue with safety. If the players want to be safe, play chess. This is a contact sport where people are trying to prevent movement. Next then you will tell us that you will call an illegal screen on a player because no one told the screener that a screen was coming. After all you have to maintain safety for a legal play because there is a possibility someone might get hurt right?

You are one of the most incompetent people I have ever read on this board. My God, when will you get a clue? It appears to be never.

Peace

The rules are in place for a reason. Let's start there. The rules or the restrictions the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of fair play, to provide equal opportunity for the offense and defense, to provide reasonable safety and protection....

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!

That's right there in the rules! Let me get this right, I am incompetent because I use safety as a guideline to make a decision. Shame on me for acting like a human being and using such realistic factors as safety to make my decision.

I am of the opinion it is officials like you who ruin the sport for others because of your asinine inability to utilized all factors available to you to make a decision. The only thing you see and use to make a judgment is the rulebook. Not only do I use the rule, I also use the intent and purpose of the rule before I make a decision, and yes, I got block, block, block on this play each and everytime I see it.

In the event I did not get a proper look at the play, I'm in the new Lead position and transitioning up the court. I might use other factors available to me like safety, intelligent decision of the player, and so on to make a judgment. But that's just me. Sorry I disagree but don't hate me because I back up what I say. It may not be right, but it's going to be like that on both ends of the court today. BLOCK!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

So safety of the players is nonsense. As long as everytime that play occurs in my game I call it a block. Nobody going to have a problem with it, except maybe you and your click of stress out officials. Easy call for me, I'll sleep good tonight.

Naw, your calls are nonsense. You don't know or understand basic rules concepts. That's why it is such an easy call for you in your rec league games to call this play a block. The reason that the players also might not have a problem with your calls in your rec league games is that they don't know any better either. It's rec league, not organized basketball. Fortunately, real, live, honest-to-goodness basketball officials do know the difference, and none of them would ever agree with you.

For all of you non-Old Schools reading, Bob Jenkins laid out the basics of what to look for in his post #3. NFHS rules 4-23-2 and 4-23-4(a) tell you how to call the play. That's why the correct call is a charge. NCAA rules are the same.

[Scrapper1]

I realize that we're not going to get Old School's account pulled. So how about if I'm deputized as a moderator only for purposes of deleting his posts? Plus, I'll delete the porn spam from the General Forum (after forwarding any pictures to Jurassic, of course).

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Let me understand your thinking here. You're going to base a call on how you THINK players will respond the rest of the game?

Damn right. I'm sending the message right now. Don't want players running underneath other players after they catch the ball in an attempt to draw the foul. Would you want someone to run underneath you everytime you catch the ball with your back turned? Damn right, this is how the games going to be called today.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Wouldn't it be safer to APPLY A RULE here? or at least try to reason through it based upon a rule or your interpretation of how the play relates to a rule? Isn't that kinda what officials do?

Totally agree, but disagree with the "safer" term you used here. Safety has nothing to do with the rule. It's about getting there first. I seemed the worse type of falls when a player runs underneath another player and he loses his balance and lands very hard, very awkward. It is not safe to run underneath a player who can not see you coming, in any forum of basketball, even though by NFHS rule it is legal. This is why the professionals removed this from their rules. You must give a player a step, or before the player takes his final step to shoot. I will admit one thing about your statement bad zebra, this is one reason why I call a block on this type of play, for "safety" reasons.

9 times out of ten, that play is going to be rule a block anyway. With these type of odds, I would teach my players to go for the steal of the ball instead of trying to draw the offensive foul. Not saying I'm right. I'm just saying the odds are more in my favor to get the steal than the offensive foul.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

Damn right.

It is not safe to run underneath a player who can not see you coming, in any forum of basketball, even though by NFHS rule it is legal.

You must give a player a step, or before the player takes his final step to shoot. I will admit one thing about your statement bad zebra, this is one reason why I call a block on this type of play, for "safety" reasons.

A wise man once said, "It is better for a man to remain silent, and have people think he is a fool, than for that man to open his mouth and remove all doubt." Congratulations - you have removed any doubt.

C'mon, quit drinking that Kool-Aid that coaches and players are feeding you, Old School. You have just admitted you would base you calls or no-calls on what you, or other people feel is "safe", vs. actually using the rules. That's too bad.

If you are an official, it is officials like you that give the rest of us bad names. Hey, don't shoot the messenger.