Hand Raising

[Mark Dexter]

You'll have to forgive me for this question, as I am not from the time of LP's, puking on shoes, staring at pants, etc., and this rule has not been in place at least since I started high school.

I know some people have said a T was assessed if the player didn't raise his/her hand. What would happen on a close "multiple" foul or a block/charge situation where players might not have been sure of who fouled? Did the official say "Blue 13" and then the player would raise his hand?

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
You'll have to forgive me for this question, as I am not from the time of LP's, puking on shoes, staring at pants, etc., and this rule has not been in place at least since I started high school.

I know some people have said a T was assessed if the player didn't raise his/her hand. What would happen on a close "multiple" foul or a block/charge situation where players might not have been sure of who fouled? Did the official say "Blue 13" and then the player would raise his hand?

Mark,
Yup.
In a tough situation, we as players would try to help out the ref.
If one of our teammates was in foul trouble, and we still had some extras, we would raise our hand to assist and use one of our own.
At other times, yes, we would raise our hand and the foul would be on an opponent. Fans loved that.
mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
You'll have to forgive me for this question, as I am not from the time of LP's, puking on shoes, staring at pants, etc., and this rule has not been in place at least since I started high school.

I know some people have said a T was assessed if the player didn't raise his/her hand. What would happen on a close "multiple" foul or a block/charge situation where players might not have been sure of who fouled? Did the official say "Blue 13" and then the player would raise his hand?

Mark,the mechanic we were supposed to use then was to bird-dog the player,and point directly at him.We had to keep pointing until they either raised their hand,or we counted to 5 and then we were supposed to T them.We used to do a whole lot of talking,and very little T'ing-i.e."put your hand up,dummy!".:In addition,we were supposed to T them if they didn't put their hand up "properly",i.e.the arm couldn't be bent,they couldn't wave it,etc.To be charitable,let's just say that this wasn't one of our favorite rules.Sure glad when that one disappeared.
-Forgot to add,we used to pre-game players like Mick so we didn't look like idiots out there!:

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 25th, 2001 at 10:29 AM]

[MOFFICIAL]

In fact I received such a "T" in a high scholl game about thirty years ago. Loud gym big rivals. I guess those are the breaks.

[Air JC]

What other officiating mechanics/rules have gone to the wayside from "way back when"? I know there used to be jump balls between hoops, and the raising hands for fouls, but were there others? I know I'm probably showing my youth with this question, but it's an interesting subject.

[daves]

If you got T'd for not raising your hand would you have to raise your hand twice on the T? Was there a visible count for the 5 seconds? I remember having to do that as a player. I'm glad that's not in our rules anymore.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Air JC
What other officiating mechanics/rules have gone to the wayside from "way back when"? I know there used to be jump balls between hoops, and the raising hands for fouls, but were there others? I know I'm probably showing my youth with this question, but it's an interesting subject.

One of the favorites that I hear mentioned often is the "lack of action" rule. If a team went into a stall, there would be different penalties. This rule is why many courts have a mark at 28 feet from the end line.

I'd be interested in knowing what the whole rule was. Maybe some of you guys with old rule books and extra time could enlighten us?

[bigwhistle]

Lack of action rule......

In a nutshell, this rule forced the team which was behind in the score to "force the action" of the game. If the team with the ball was behind, they had 5 seconds to penetrate the 28 foot line, which is where the hash mark on many courts is. Whenever they would bring the ball back beyond that point, a new 5 count would begin. This rule was not invoked if the defense was playing aggressive defense in the mid-court area (the area between the 28' line and the division line).

If the defense was behind, they had 5 seconds to go "create the action" by playing agressive defense in the mid-court area.

If whichever team was responsible for forcing the action did not before the 5 second count, then a verbal "play ball" command would be given from the covering official. The team then had 5 seconds to create action as described above. The next time that the team did not "force the action" during that period, it was a technical foul.

My old feeble mind now needs a rest, having been forced to remember such ancient history

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by daves
If you got T'd for not raising your hand would you have to raise your hand twice on the T? Was there a visible count for the 5 seconds? I remember having to do that as a player. I'm glad that's not in our rules anymore.

Dave,you didn't have to raise your hand for a T,just for personal fouls.T's didn't count towards the bonus or as one of the 5 allowed a player for disqualification.There was no limit on the number of T's an individual player or coach could receive,either.We didn't have to give a visible count.We just pointed,counted to 5 reeeal slow,and usually told the player quietly to put his hand up.The only T"s I ever called were on players who featured their middle finger on their raised hands.Had a few of them.:We were all glad when the took this rule out.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 26th, 2001 at 09:37 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bigwhistle
Lack of action rule......

In a nutshell, this rule forced the team which was behind in the score to "force the action" of the game. If the team with the ball was behind, they had 5 seconds to penetrate the 28 foot line, which is where the hash mark on many courts is. Whenever they would bring the ball back beyond that point, a new 5 count would begin. This rule was not invoked if the defense was playing aggressive defense in the mid-court area (the area between the 28' line and the division line).

If the defense was behind, they had 5 seconds to go "create the action" by playing agressive defense in the mid-court area.

If whichever team was responsible for forcing the action did not before the 5 second count, then a verbal "play ball" command would be given from the covering official. The team then had 5 seconds to create action as described above. The next time that the team did not "force the action" during that period, it was a technical foul.

My old feeble mind now needs a rest, having been forced to remember such ancient history

Couple of points to add to Bigwhistle's post.If the score was tied the defense was responsible for action.If the defense was responsible for action and the offense had 2 players in the mid-court area,the defense had to send 2 out also.B had to match the number of players that A had in the mid-court.According to my memory,though,it was a 10 second count to identify it,then we had to point in the direction that the action was supposed to go,and then holler "play ball",and they now had 5 second to get somebody out there(defense) or move the ball into the forecourt(offense).Does that sound right,Big? Btw,when I started,it was a "30 second rule" for lack of action and it only applied to the defense when they were behind.I ain't gonna get into that one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Air JC
What other officiating mechanics/rules have gone to the wayside from "way back when"? I know there used to be jump balls between hoops, and the raising hands for fouls, but were there others? I know I'm probably showing my youth with this question, but it's an interesting subject.

They've changed a pile since I started,but they broke my heart when they took this one out.Way back(1959),we didn't have to handle the ball at all in the backcourt on violations.If I remember right,the clock didn't stop either.FIBA later went to this rule.I felt like puking on the whole rules committee's shoes when they changed this one.:Btw,when I started,the uniform was a long-sleeved,B&W broadcloth shirt that had to be buttoned at the wrists.They were hotter than hell.

[mick]

In the middle 60s we , at least for one year, had to penetrate by pass or action, the area between the free throw line and the endline... within 5 seconds ?????!!?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
In the middle 60s we , at least for one year, had to penetrate by pass or action, the area between the free throw line and the endline... within 5 seconds ?????!!?

That's the one that Bigwhistle and I were talking about above,Mick.I don't remember using the FT line,but there's a lot of things I don't remember about the "60s.:They divided the frontcourt into 2 sections-forecourt(closest to endline) and mid-court(closest to center line).Once the offense was warned,every time they had the ball in the mid-court area,they had to move it into the fore-court by dribbling or passing,unless they were closely guarded.Five seconds was the time I remember,too.Count stopped when the ball went into the forecourt,and a new one started if it moved back into the mid-court.I think they allowed one warning/team/quarter and you started fresh the next quarter,but I'm not really sure.Btw,sounds like you were one of the "Converse Chuck Taylor" guys.Remember those?:

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

That's the one that Bigwhistle and I were talking about above,Mick.I don't remember using the FT line,but there's a lot of things I don't remember about the "60s.:They divided the frontcourt into 2 sections-forecourt(closest to endline) and mid-court(closest to center line).Once the offense was warned,every time they had the ball in the mid-court area,they had to move it into the fore-court by dribbling or passing,unless they were closely guarded.Five seconds was the time I remember,too.Count stopped when the ball went into the forecourt,and a new one started if it moved back into the mid-court.I think they allowed one warning/team/quarter and you started fresh the next quarter,but I'm not really sure.Btw,sounds like you were one of the "Converse Chuck Taylor" guys.Remember those?:

Oh, yeah!
In fact our team shoe was the White high-top Converse All-Star. The low blacks with that blue thing on the toe were justfor "cool".

We got a shoe deal at Fred Elliots's shoe store. Two pairs per year. Seems like University of Wisconsin is being spanked for that right now.
mick

[rogerc1]

In 1968, our coach gave us those blue-toe shoes and he explained that we would wear them in practice because they were weighted. Therefore, the regular shoes would seem lighter and your feet feel quicker when worn on game days.