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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 04:50pm
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Is there moving screen in the paint?

I boxed out this guy from putting any defense on my team shooting the ball and he called moving screen. This was game point and we ended up replaying the point.

Couldnt I argue that I was boxing out for the possible rebound?

Defense is the green circle and I'm the red X next to it. The shooter is the Red X by itself.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 04:54pm
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Screening can be called anywhere on the court.

Also, it doesn't matter what your intent is, if you illegally set a screen and contact the defender, it's a foul.

My favorite call has always been calling a foul on a player who sets to "box out," but then extends his hip and pushes his opponent a good five feet. They always protest when the whistle blows and I just respond "when you push the guy that far, it's not boxing out."
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 05:02pm
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First of all there is no such thing as a "moving screen" that suggest something illegal took place. You can have a stationary screen and still be called for a foul under the right circumstances and you can screen someone while moving and be perfectly legal.

As stated you can be called for an "illegal screen" anywhere on the court. The lane does not exonerate you from being called of any type of foul.

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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 05:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme panda
I boxed out this guy from putting any defense on my team shooting the ball and he called moving screen. This was game point and we ended up replaying the point.

Couldnt I argue that I was boxing out for the possible rebound?
It's completely impossible to give you a definitive answer without actually seeing the play.
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 05:54pm
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There are a lot of variables here, as various ones have mentioned. Boxing out can be legal or illegal, moving screens aren't always illegal, and none of that has anything to do with the key. Perhaps you could re-describe the situation? Who got where first? Did you have legal position? Did your opponent? Was verticality an issue in the play? Was there contact?

Your play-pic is very good, and helps way more than some of the other questions we get, but it would be even more helpful if you could describe how the play unfolded over time, and use A1 to mean the shooter, A2 to mean you, and B1 to mean the defense who claims you "moving screened" him.

Example: A1 and A2 crossed the division line at the same time. B1 was near the top of the key intending to guard A1. A2 ran ahead and set a screen to keep B1 from the shooter. A2 established legal position so that A1 could get to the basket before B1. B1 attempted to get around A2, but A2 moved to keep B1 away from A1. B1 pulled up and there was no contact.

In this play, the description tells each action and how the players were relating to each other. If you can describe your play like this we can give you some guidelines that might help you determine how to do things legally next time.
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 06:33pm
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Well it unfolded like this:

A1 = shooter
A2 = Me
B1 = Defender

My teammate misses a shot and A2 and B1 go for the rebound. I come down with it and pretty much at the same time A1 gets away from his defender and is wide open right in front of me. I pass him the ball, but he fumbles with the ball before he shoots. During this process A2 is boxing out B1 because he wants to rotate off to defend A1.

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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 06:49pm
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What you have just described does not make the situation any clearer in my opinion. As Jurassic said, it is almost impossible to know what happen without being there. Even if you say one thing happen, the official that was on the game saw something different. Bottom line is everyone is allowed a place on the floor as long as they got their legally. At this point it is very hard to understand what really happened on this play.

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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 08:44pm
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Come on guys! It's not that hard to figure out what he's asking.

If B1 (the defender) is trying to get by A2 (you) to the shooter (A1), you have to set a legal screen to not commit a foul. If you (A2) are moving when there is contact, you've likely committed a foul (unless you're moving directly away from B1).

Also considered is whether team A gains an advantage from the contact. If B1 was close enough to get to the shooter before the shot if not for A2's illegal screen, that is an advantage. If they're too far away, no advantage...no call...since B1 would have been there too late to make a play on the shot.

The official has to distinguish B1 and A2 are merely jockying (legally) for a better position in the post or if B2 is trying to get to A1. If A2 is moving and there is contact but B1 is not trying to get to A1 (official's judgement) there will likely be no foul...it's not a screen.
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 09:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Come on guys! It's not that hard to figure out what he's asking.
Camron, you are a man of many talents, and I admire your reffing abilities and you computer acumen. But I didn't know you had ESP. Next game you and I have together, we'll just sit at the coffee shop and shoot the bull, and ref from there, eh?

Panda, when contact occurred between A2 and B1, were you facing each other? Were you both moving? Where on the bodies was the contact?

Last edited by rainmaker; Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:03pm.
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 09:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Come on guys! It's not that hard to figure out what he's asking.
I am going to have to agree with Juulie here. It sounds like you know more about the situation than the OPer pointed out. All that we know is three players are involved and they were near each other and a foul was called on the OPer. This person is obviously not an official and they are not using language that really describes the situation very well. Whether the official missed the call or not is something we can only speculate about. But to say we understand is a stretch.

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Old Fri Jun 01, 2007, 09:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme panda
Well it unfolded like this:

My teammate misses a shot and A2 and B1 go for the rebound. I come down with it and pretty much at the same time A1 gets away from his defender and is wide open right in front of me. I pass him the ball, but he fumbles with the ball before he shoots. During this process A2 is boxing out B1 because he wants to rotate off to defend A1.
To legally set this screen, you have to establish your position, short of contact with your opponent.

You cannot extend any part of your body into his path if he is trying to get around you.

As far as the rule book is concerned, there's no such thing as "boxing out."

When a player is "boxing out" as taught by a coach, he cannot extend any part of his body into the path of his opponent.
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Old Sat Jun 02, 2007, 11:16pm
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I understand I cant describe the situation as detailed as you guys want.

This was only a pick-up game and usually a lot of rules aren't obeyed except the simple ones. Illegal screens aren't usually called and this was the first time I've seen it called.

I was just wanted to clarify if the person who called the illegal screen actually had an argument, since I thought it couldn't be called in the paint.

I didn't know this forum actually had REAL refs on it. I just googled basketball forum and wanted other's people opinion on this. Thank you for your time.
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Old Sun Jun 03, 2007, 12:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Camron, you are a man of many talents, and I admire your reffing abilities and you computer acumen. But I didn't know you had ESP. Next game you and I have together, we'll just sit at the coffee shop and shoot the bull, and ref from there, eh?

Panda, when contact occurred between A2 and B1, were you facing each other? Were you both moving? Where on the bodies was the contact?
Juulie, read what he wrote again and read it with a player's mind. He told us pretty much everything....just not in technical terms.

I don't claim to have ESP but we, on this board, often expect questions worded in near perfect rulebook jargon. We jump all over non-officials with reasonable, legit questions when they're phrased in laymans terms...even when it's not that hard to figure out what they're really asking. Some call them fanboys (some of them are but not all). Some belittle them. I wouldn't hurt to be a bit more tolerant and not slam the guy for not fitting the casebook question format.
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Old Sun Jun 03, 2007, 01:10am
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Camron,

No one was slamming the guy. We just did not know what he wanted to know. We cannot tell what someone called based on where people are standing. Also no one was expecting perfect jargon either, but if he wants to understand where we are coming from, we are going to give proper language in our description. If I ask a doctor what is the cause of an illness or a condition, I do not expect them to talk only in terms that do not give the proper name for a condition or not to name the proper body parts based on what the medical profession calls them. I was perfectly willing to describe the situation with more information. Right now you are the only person that seemed to know what this person was saying. Everyone else seemed either confused or not clear what happen on the play. All I do know is that where the players are standing and that he thinks you cannot call a moving screen in the lane. Everything else is a complete guess.

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 03, 2007, 08:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme panda
I was just wanted to clarify if the person who called the illegal screen actually had an argument, since I thought it couldn't be called in the paint.
An illegal screen can be called anywhere on the playing floor.
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