First AAU of the year

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Apparently, White needed to win by at least 8 points to make the playoffs. So they were trying to give the foul and hope that Red made one shot of the 1-and-1 so they could play a second OT and try to win by enough to qualify for the playoffs.

That could make for an interesting intentional foul situation.

"Don't worry about it, Coach. That's not your job."

Perfect comeback, and seems like it was a situation where it was safe to use it. Had the coach gotten T'ed at halftime, not so sure I'd pull it out.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

That could make for an interesting intentional foul situation.

Had a sitch a number of years ago - I'm L in a half-court press situation just coming out of a TO, and right near the HC that requested the TO. His strategy was to commit a foul before the ball was legally inbounds, yet after the thrower-in had the ball in his hands. Only thing was he told me about his plan. Intentional foul or not?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Intentional foul or not?

Basketball play or not?

[BayStateRef]

I had three AAU games on Saturday and absolutely nothing happened. It was surreal. Not one coach complained; not one strange play; not one bit of bad sportsmanship. The teams came to play and they did. The coaches simply coached.

And what made this even more amazing is that the benches were on the end line, so either I or my partner was standing directly in front of a coach the entire game (when the ball was at that end of the court).

I was actually looking forward to three more games on Sunday, but the assignor called and said the roof was leaking and the games on my court were canceled.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Basketball play or not?

I immediately assessed a non-intentional foul upon observing the B player hindering the progress of an opponent.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Had a sitch a number of years ago - I'm L in a half-court press situation just coming out of a TO, and right near the HC that requested the TO. His strategy was to commit a foul before the ball was legally inbounds, yet after the thrower-in had the ball in his hands. Only thing was he told me about his plan. Intentional foul or not?

Of course - intentional foul all the way.

It falls under the definition of preventing the clock from starting. On top of that, the coach was stupid enough to tell me what he was trying to do.

If you call this a common foul, whaddya say to B's coach who overheard your conversation with A's coach and starts screaming that it should have been an intentional foul, as it was premeditated?

[KCRef]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Of course - intentional foul all the way.

It falls under the definition of preventing the clock from starting. On top of that, the coach was stupid enough to tell me what he was trying to do.

If you call this a common foul, whaddya say to B's coach who overheard your conversation with A's coach and starts screaming that it should have been an intentional foul, as it was premeditated?

Do you consider this situation different than hearing a coach yell to his player "foul him", in order to stop the clock late in the game?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KCRef

Do you consider this situation different than hearing a coach yell to his player "foul him", in order to stop the clock late in the game?

You call the act, not what the coach may say. See case book play 4.19.3SitD. In the COMMENT that case play says "Officials must determine if a foul is intentional or not by judging the fouling act itself, not whether or not the coach instructed a player to perform the act." On a throw-in, it's always a judgment call. If the thrower still has the ball, then if you feel that the defender fouled specifically just to stop the clock(iow it wasn't a legitimate attempt to play the ball or the player), call the intentional foul. That's right out of the definition of an intentional foul.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by KCRef

Do you consider this situation different than hearing a coach yell to his player "foul him", in order to stop the clock late in the game?

If he shouts for a player to foul an opponent, the foul could be intentional or not, depending on what I see.

If the coach TELLS ME he's going to foul someone, I have an intentional foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

If the coach TELLS ME he's going to foul someone, I have an intentional foul.

You really, really need to read that case play.

The FED deliberately took that type of thinking out. Read POE#3B in the 2005-06 rulebook, Mark, if you still have it. That'll tell you that you're wrong also....."There is a right way and a wrong way to foul. Coaches must instruct their players in the proper technique for strategic fouling. "Going for the ball" is a common phrase, but intentional fouls should still be called on players who go for the ball if it is not done properly. Conversely, a coach who yells "Foul" instructions to his/her team does NOT mean that the ensuing foul is "automatically" an intentional foul- even though it is a strategic foul designed to stop the clock. Coaches, officials, players, fans and administrators must accept fouling as a legitimate coaching strategy."

The FED changed it's philosophy and we have to change with them.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The FED changed it's philosophy and we have to change with them.

I'm okay with the "new" philosophy (hell, I've explained it to my mother only a few thousand times) and, in these situations, like to think that I'm competent at judging whether the foul involved a "proper technique" or not. However, I see a big difference between a coach telling his team to foul and the coach telling me that he plans on fouling. There may be a few situations when I pass on the contact or when a non-intentional foul clearly occurs after this happens, but the majority of the time, I'm signalling with my arms crossed.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Of course - intentional foul all the way.

It falls under the definition of preventing the clock from starting. On top of that, the coach was stupid enough to tell me what he was trying to do.

If you call this a common foul, whaddya say to B's coach who overheard your conversation with A's coach and starts screaming that it should have been an intentional foul, as it was premeditated?

I went with the common foul. I am not able the discern the intent of the fouler. His action was 100% a common foul without the foul-to-put'em-on-the-line strategy. What if the player internally decided to ignore his coach and in making a legitimate attempt to intercept the pass, fouled A2?

As long as the contact is not untoward, I have a common foul.

If the coach questions about me about it, I tell him that my ruling is the most consistent with the game.