Pick / Charge

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ColdShot

I guess you are right. The exact location of passer, receiver, and defender
wasn't exactly the same as the original example. In respect to the rule, and in regards to time, space, and line of sight required to field the pass, they were all the same. In each case the receiver must look away from his path to catch the pass, the defender moves into position as the receiver looks away and while the receiver is still moving without the ball (i.e. screening principles apply), the catch is made and contact occurs immediately (i.e. player control principles apply at the instant of contact). The receiver has no chance to see the defender or to avoid contact.

And yes, the passers lead the receivers into potential contact situations.
This same type of "rare" play occurred at least once in the Suns vs Spurs game last night. I think the passer was Nash.

We can agree to disagree if it's a good rule or not, but don't ask me to believe this type of play is "rare". Indeed, in my experience, there are fewer
blind screens at speed off the ball than on (defenders are focused on defending the player with the ball, and screener screen around the ball). Nonetheless, there is specific language in the rules to protect players without the ball in the SAME circumstance. All I'm saying is that the same rules that apply to the player a .1 of a second before he catches a pass (speed, distance, blind screen) should apply in the .1 of a second after he catches a pass. The way the rules read, and the way every respondent here posted (thanks to all for the clarifications), they don't.

The whole point you're missing is that the defender doesn't magially appear in the spot. Before the offensive player turns their head away to catch the ball, the could/should see the defender in the area and should expect that such defender is going to actually be playing defense....atempting to stop the offensive player from advancing with the ball.

[ColdShot]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The whole point you're missing is that the defender doesn't magially appear in the spot. Before the offensive player turns their head away to catch the ball, the could/should see the defender in the area and should expect that such defender is going to actually be playing defense....atempting to stop the offensive player from advancing with the ball.

No, I'm not missing this point at all, you are. I don't believe the defender "magially" appears in the spot, nor does the rule book. In a case where the offensive player cuts down the lane, looks for back for a pass, the defender slides over and creates contact in the instant after the player's head is turned screening principles apply as long as the pass *isn't* caught. If the pass *is* caught the rules (and you) change and expect the receiver to see the defender and/or be able to avoid him with no respect for speed and distance or line of sight. The physics of the play in respect to speed, distance, line of sight, don't have to change at all, but the rule does. With the ball the rules say charge, without the ball the *exact* same contact is a block or illegal screen. Sorry to cloud the issue with facts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ColdShot

No, I'm not missing this point at all, you are. I don't believe the defender "magially" appears in the spot, nor does the rule book. In a case where the offensive player cuts down the lane, looks for back for a pass, the defender slides over and creates contact in the instant after the player's head is turned screening principles apply as long as the pass *isn't* caught. If the pass *is* caught the rules (and you) change and expect the receiver to see the defender and/or be able to avoid him with no respect for speed and distance or line of sight. The physics of the play in respect to speed, distance, line of sight, don't have to change at all, but the rule does. With the ball the rules say charge, without the ball the *exact* same contact is a block or illegal screen. Sorry to cloud the issue with facts.

Life....and the rules....suck.

It is what it is, whether you like it or agree with it. Let it go.

[ColdShot]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Life....and the rules....suck.

It is what it is, whether you like it or agree with it. Let it go.

Now, now, now.... my left knee, right Achilles, and my lower back
are feeling good (um, er, OK). I'm playing in a rec-league game
against 20 somethings tonight. My 50 something buddy will be
officiating (last week he T'ed me up as a joke....I had told him
I'd never been T'ed in 40 years of organized hoop. T'ing me up
made his day).

Life is good.

And the rules are good. I just don't like this one.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ColdShot

Life is good.

And the rules are good. I just don't like this one.

Well, there's some rules that a lot of officials don't like either. Examples are having to be the Clothing Police out there and our all-time favorite- letting head coaches request a time-out.

We just gotta play the hand that we're dealt with.