Coach and Player Confrontation

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

While I agree that a kid shouldn't be treated that way, the kid is there voluntarily, and he had to know earlier than this situation what kind of coach this was. And the kid's parents should have known. You have no right or authority to interfere, except as the player or the coach break the rules.

THis has nothing to do with being a "rule-spouting robot" or whatever it was you called it. It has to do with legal authority. Stepping closer so that the coach knows he's being observed seems like a good move. But further involved you can't get, until rules are broken.

Then we shall disagree. You will also have to show me in the code where it says I can't intervene to help a player who I perceive may be in danger. I understand we must be careful in terms of liability and the law.

We are humans first and I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said that if an American is in danger or need, then it is our duty to help and not turn out backs. It sounds as though you would turn your back on someone in need, simply because you have a referee uniform on. Well, this is where we separate the good from the great. The great finds a way, the good finds excuses. I have said this before and I will say it again. It takes courage to stand up for what is right, it takes even greater courage to stand up for what is not.

I am very concerned for the sport of basketball in what I am seeing on the courts. Last year while working a National AAU Tournament, very young kids. There was a player on the court who was crying. I told the coach he has to come out because he is crying. The coach said he needs to toughen up and would not take him out. Now the burden (maybe self inflicted) switched back to me and I was torn inside what to do. I took the route, this is not a referee issue and let the player continue to play. I was quite upset with myself afterwards. But to take a stand meant I would have to go against the coach which I did not know at that point in time what to do. Bottom line is I have to sleep with myself and I have a conscience and I believe I let that kid down. It takes even greater courage to stand up for what is not right. It's not happening on my court and if you want to take my uniform you can have it. It is a sad state of affairs if this is what we have let our game come too. Win at all cost, the players is expendable. I know you are short-sided when it comes to these type of issue, especially when it comes to the rulebook. But what about tomorrow? This abused kid is going to become an adult, and one day may become a coach. What type of coach do you think he will be, or better, would you want this type of man coaching your grandson or granddaughter?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

We are humans first and I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said that if an American is in danger or need, then it is our duty to help and not turn out backs.

I would not put much stock in anything Ronald Reagan said. And I agree with Juulie that it is not our duty to intervene in a "family" dispute like that. If a kid is crying then they should not be playing an emotional sport. As stated the only thing we really can do is penalize the language, but if there is no profanity then we need to move on. This is an issue with the schools, parents and the coaches to handle.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Rut, why are you attributing that post to me?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Rut, why are you attributing that post to me?

Sorry I erased the wrong quote tag.

Peace

[mick]

I remain aware of the Officials Code of Ethics.

• Officials at an interscholastic athletic event are participants in the educational development of high school students. As such, they must exercise a high level of self-discipline, independence and responsibility. The purpose of this Code is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all interscholastic officials. [Some of this Code is:]
  • Officials shall uphold the honor and dignity....
  • Officials shall ... comport themselves in a manner consistent with the high standards of their profession.
  • Officials shall remain mindful that their conduct influences the respect that student-athletes, coaches and the public hold for the profession.

Quite possibly, the words (ie., responsibility, ethical, honor, dignity, standards, influences) will have different personal meanings to individual Officials. And regardless of whether we totally or partially agree with the exact measure of *What is Right" during a contest, it is important that each Official is "true to self", that our purpose, our reason to officiate has not been influenced by factors that lie somewhere outside our realm of propriety.

Yes, the Rules should be applied and must never be mis-applied.
Yet, if the rules do not specifically include what we may personally view as the Wellness of the Game, it is not unjustifiable that, left with nothing else to employ, we default to our personal sense of "right".

If we see an adult and a youth in a heated exchange [in a parking lot, in a yard], with no written rules in that lot or yard, are we obliged to observe, to act, to follow our gut, or to look away and let another fix it.

...Whatever! Without a particular rule, do what personally feels right.

[Nevadaref]

Well said, mick.
That sentiment is basically what I had in mind when I earlier wrote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How these unusual situations are handled or not handled really shows the worth of a game official.

In the end an official, and moreso a person, is going to judged on how well certain situations are dealt with. In these oddball cases, doing what you believe is the right thing to do is quality advice and should usually turnout for the best. There are many factors which go into making up what an individual believes is right. The rules, fairness, safety, personal background, etc.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

We are humans first and I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said that if an American is in danger or need, then it is our duty to help and not turn out backs. It sounds as though you would turn your back on someone in need, simply because you have a referee uniform on. Well, this is where we separate the good from the great.

I know you are short-sided when it comes to these type of issue, especially when it comes to the rulebook. But what about tomorrow? This abused kid is going to become an adult, and one day may become a coach. What type of coach do you think he will be, or better, would you want this type of man coaching your grandson or granddaughter?

No, I don't want this person coaching my kids or grandkids, and as a parent, I get the choice. But other parents have choices, too, and if they want that person coaching, I have no grounds to interfere. I don't like it, and i"ll work against it in whatever avenue I can, but I sure can't just arbitrarily decide that my stripes make me the final word on what's going to happen or not happen on the basketball floor.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I don't like it, and i"ll work against it in whatever avenue I can, but I sure can't just arbitrarily decide that my stripes make me the final word on what's going to happen or not happen on the basketball floor.

Actually, I disagree respectfully again. On my court, and I have said this before. We are all going to respect one another or there's not going to be a game. We (officials) bring the intergrity to the floor and at the youth level, there will be respect for everyone that is there, or I will have people removed. Fans will respect fans, players will respect one another, coaches will respect the officials, and so on. I have the authority to ensure that this happens and in the event that it doesn't. I would like to feel I am within my rights to do something about it. If we are outside the scope of the rulebook, which I kind of think we are here. Then you do what you believe to be right or you turn your head and ignore it forever.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Old School

Last year while working a National AAU Tournament, very young kids.

Which national tournament? Which city? What age group? What hotel did you stay at? Who assigned this?

Just wondering.