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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 08:11am
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Bonehead play of the week.

Boys AAU 17 under Super Pool
Division Pool Play

Team B just scored to bring the score to 60- 56 team A leading with 00:14:06 to play.Team B called time out after the score.
Resumptiion of play
Team A's ball to inbound on the base line with the ability to run the end line.
A2 and B3 are jostling for position just sort of banging bodies a little (B3 has about a 4 inch height advantage on A2 and wants to keep between him and the ball) - I still have the ball and I am just getting ready to step in and stop the jostling for position when A2 looks up to B3 and nails him in the side with an elbow that disables him for a second.
I put the whistle in my mouth give it a tweet, make sure we do not have any retaliation and head to the table ...?
What do you have?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 08:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
I still have the ball and I am just getting ready to step in and stop the jostling for position when A2 looks up to B3 and nails him in the side with an elbow that disables him for a second.
I put the whistle in my mouth give it a tweet, make sure we do not have any retaliation and head to the table ...?
What do you have?
There are only 2 choices under NFHS rules. An intentional technical foul or a flagrant technical foul. Your choice. NFHS rule 4-19-5(c).

Same call and choices under NCAA rules--NCAA rules 4-26-5&7.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 08:30am.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 08:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
when A2 looks up to B3 and nails him in the side with an elbow that disables him for a second.
I put the whistle in my mouth give it a tweet, make sure we do not have any retaliation and head to the table ...?
What do you have?
Sounds premeditated. Flagrant. See ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
Team B just scored to bring the score to 60- 56 team A leading with 00:14:06 to play.
FWIW, 00:14:06 signifies that there are 14 minutes and 6 seconds remaining. Guessing that you're likely talking Fed rules, I wonder how you end up with > 8 minutes on the clock. Also guesing that if 14 minutes is correct, you're using 16-, 18- or 20-minute halves. If so, how does AAU ball score that many points in such a short amount of time? If 14 seconds is correct, the correct notation, when not specifying units, is 00:14.06.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 08:57am
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I had a similar situation in AAU ball this weekend. 2:30 to go in a quarterfinal 17U game, Team A is up 54-53. We've already had 2 technicals in the game for pushing and shoving after a play, and these teams just don't like each other. Two man game, I'm inbounding in front of the table. Just as I put the ball in play, A1 starts to turn to pick B1, and B1 responds by giving a sharp elbow to the temple. I immediately called flagrant and tossed him. HC for Team B didn't say a word.

I think your situation also sounds like it deserves a flagrant.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 08:59am
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I've got a flagrant technical foul. See ya A2.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 09:01am
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14.06 seconds remaining in the second half - we were playing 14 minute halves.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 09:11am
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Pretty easy Techinal or Intentional as for ejection only the officials have a feel for the game going on.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 09:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
14.06 seconds remaining in the second half
I know this doesn't really matter to your situation, but did the clock really display hundredths of a second? I don't think I've ever seen that on a basketball clock.

As for the elbow, I'd go with the intentional T, but not flagrant. If it hit the head, then flagrant; but in the ribs, I don't think so.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
I know this doesn't really matter to your situation, but did the clock really display hundredths of a second? I don't think I've ever seen that on a basketball clock.

As for the elbow, I'd go with the intentional T, but not flagrant. If it hit the head, then flagrant; but in the ribs, I don't think so.

There is a high school in the Toledo area that when the clock goes under one minute and the clock stops it shows hundredths of a second.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
I still have the ball and I am just getting ready to step in and stop the jostling for position when A2 looks up to B3 and nails him in the side with an elbow that disables him for a second.
I put the whistle in my mouth give it a tweet, make sure we do not have any retaliation and head to the table ...?
What do you have?
Judgment call on your part as to if it is flagrant or not. If it's a basketball play, in other words, he's working to get position, I would just call a technical. If he went outside the bounds of keeping it basketball related, I would call flagrant. The thing about flagrant, if you're going to call that, make sure there's no doubt that the act was to injured or hurt the player. For ex: I had a game where B2 foul A1 and while A1 was picking himself up off the floor and my partner was reporting the foul to the table with his back turned to the players, B2 punched A1 in the face. There is no doubt, there was nothing basketball related to that play. The intent was to injure.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 10:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Judgment call on your part as to if it is flagrant or not. If it's a basketball play, in other words, he's working to get position, I would just call a technical.
If it's a "basketball play" then it's not going to be a technical. A dead ball contact techical can only be intentional or flagrant. A "basketball play" is neither.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
There are only 2 choices under NFHS rules. An intentional technical foul or a flagrant technical foul. Your choice. NFHS rule 4-19-5(c).

Same call and choices under NCAA rules--NCAA rules 4-26-5&7.

Is that right JR? I thought intentional technical was only NCAA mens. For NFHS, you can only have technical or flagrant technical. In NCAA, you could have technical, intentional technical, or flagrant technical.
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewNCref
For NFHS, you can only have technical or flagrant technical. In NCAA, you could have technical, intentional technical, or flagrant technical.
NFHS - Intentional Technical or Flagrant Technical

NCAA - Same (because there is contact it cannot be a technical by itself)
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 01:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart
NFHS - Intentional Technical or Flagrant Technical

NCAA - Same (because there is contact it cannot be a technical by itself)
Pardon my correction, but...

NCAAM - Same
NCAAW - Flagrant technical is the only choice. (There is no intentional technical in NCAAW.)
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Old Mon Apr 23, 2007, 01:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
There is a high school in the Toledo area that when the clock goes under one minute and the clock stops it shows hundredths of a second.
Did some games at a college that shows hundredths of a second as well. I didn't like it; it was made by the Hamilton Scoreboard Company. They have a new clock now. I'll be at that gym this weekend.
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