NFHS Basketball Rules Committee

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let's see.




I maintain that the 10 second violation would still not apply during a throwin even if team control does, because the ball does not get BC status until either it or the player touching it touches the BC. This would not be happening on a throwin.

If you define a throwin as having team control, then you would need to start the 10 second count once the inbounds pass touched the floor in the BC, or once it was tipped by a player from either team in the throwin team's BC.

Adding "in bounds" to the 10 second violation definition would do nothing to change that, however, so the definition would need to be tweaked further to prevent that.

I will concede that the 3 second count would need to start during a throwin (if an offensive player was in the lane) if team control is added; based strictly on the phrase in red above.

This could be rectified by adding "or out of bounds" to article 2. As article 2 is worded, the ball has front court status during a throwin no matter where the throwin is spotted. Adding team control to a throwin would also require an exception to the backcourt rule unless the phrase "or out of bounds" is added to 4-4-2.

The one you forgot, that would still make things unclear:

4 SECTION 13 COURT AREAS

ART. 1 . . . The frontcourt of a team consists of that part of the court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of the backboard.

ART. 2 . . . The backcourt of a team consists of the rest of the court, including the entire division line and the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the opponent's backboard.

[Nevadaref]

Sorry boys, but you are having a pointless discussion. Those issues are NOT on the list of proposed changes.

But feel free to continue anyway!

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sorry boys, but you are having a pointless discussion. Those issues are NOT on the list of proposed changes.

No, but several of the proposals relate to adding team control to a throw-in. The 10-second and 3-second rules could need revision if one of those proposals passes.

Personally, I think that we should not change the definition of team control. If you really want to have team control fouls during throw-ins, we should expand the defintion of team control fouls, adding "common fouls during a throw-in". JMO.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

No, but several of the proposals relate to adding team control to a throw-in. The 10-second and 3-second rules could need revision if one of those proposals passes.

Personally, I think that we should not change the definition of team control. If you really want to have team control fouls during throw-ins, we should expand the defintion of team control fouls, adding "common fouls during a throw-in". JMO.

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

No, but several of the proposals relate to adding team control to a throw-in. The 10-second and 3-second rules could need revision if one of those proposals passes.

Personally, I think that we should not change the definition of team control. If you really want to have team control fouls during throw-ins, we should expand the defintion of team control fouls, adding "common fouls during a throw-in". JMO.

hey chuck how would they need revision?

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by TRef21

...how would they need revision?

That has been discussed extensively during this thread:

If you added team control during a throwin, then you could have, by definition, a 3-second violation before the 5-second count ever ends.

For the 10-second count, it would have to start as soon as the ball obtained BC status since TC was established as soon as the ball was given to the thrower (who, by current defition, is considered to be in the FC during the throwin but exceptions already exist for throwins to the BC).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

For the 10-second count, it would have to start as soon as the ball obtained BC status since TC was established as soon as the ball was given to the thrower (who, by current defition, is considered to be in the FC during the throwin but exceptions already exist for throwins to the BC).

There is no exception required currently for this, as a backcourt violation requires team control in the front court. Since there's no TC on a throwin, the exception isn't required. Nor is it there, because the "exception" refers to the team not in control. If you add team control to a throwin, this "exception" will not apply. So, in this situation, the throwin team will not be able to jump from FC, catch the ball in the air, and land in the BC on a throwin.

Secondly, if a throwin team inbounds the ball to a teammate in the BC, it would be a BC violation by rule since there is team control in the FC by definitions.

Also, if they go with Chuck's idea, it would have to be worded in a way that extended the TC foul to cover the time between a tip on a throwin pass until a player from either team controlled the ball. If they don't want a break in applicability, that is.

[Junker]

Along these lines....I was at a college camp this weekend and one of the major mechanics changes they are implimenting next season is the calling official going to the C position every time. I'm not sure if I like it. I didn't catch the entire explanation so if any of you know more I'd like to hear it.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

... So, in this situation, the throwin team will not be able to jump from FC, catch the ball in the air, and land in the BC on a throwin.

Secondly, if a throwin team inbounds the ball to a teammate in the BC, it would be a BC violation by rule since there is team control in the FC by definitions.

Also, if they go with Chuck's idea, it would have to be worded in a way that extended the TC foul to cover the time between a tip on a throwin pass until a player from either team controlled the ball. If they don't want a break in applicability, that is.

Enlightening - thanks.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

That has been discussed extensively during this thread:

If you added team control during a throwin, then you could have, by definition, a 3-second violation before the 5-second count ever ends.

For the 10-second count, it would have to start as soon as the ball obtained BC status since TC was established as soon as the ball was given to the thrower (who, by current defition, is considered to be in the FC during the throwin but exceptions already exist for throwins to the BC).

I'm not sure this is the case. On a throw-in, the player is OOB, not in the front court, even if they are next to the basket. The front court is the inbounds portion of the court. So, once the player is handed the ball for a throw-in, there would be team control, but not team control in the front court. Therefore, no exception is necessary.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not sure this is the case. On a throw-in, the player is OOB, not in the front court, even if they are next to the basket. The front court is the inbounds portion of the court. So, once the player is handed the ball for a throw-in, there would be team control, but not team control in the front court. Therefore, no exception is necessary.

I thought so, too, but rule 4-4 indicates otherewise. It flat out states, if the ball (or player) is not touching the backcourt, the ball has FC status. Furthermore, 4-13 defines the BC and says nothing about in bounds or out of bounds.