NFHS Basketball Rules Committee

[tjones1]

The committee meets Sunday (4/15). Ideas or predictions as to the new changes?

[Adam]

I'll predict the score.
Coaches 5 : Officials 2

[Junker]

What changes are proposed for this year? I'm sure they've been posted, but I don't really recall what was on the table.

[tjones1]

Inside information?

[Adam]

I don't know that anything listed here was "on the table" so much as it was just a bunch of ideas spawned by questions from a steroid-enhanced squirrel posing as a D1 ref.

[blindzebra]

I'm betting on the punch signal for all control fouls...player and team.

I'm betting team control during a throw-in, with the word inbounds added to the 3 second, 10 second back court and closely guarded rules.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

...with the word inbounds added to the 3 second, 10 second back court and closely guarded rules.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

That is needed if you have team control during a throw-in, otherwise you could have 3 seconds while the ball is OOB, or the 10 second count would begin before the throw-in ends.

[Adam]

I don't think it would be needed for the 3 second or 10 second counts. Three seconds requires team control in the front court, which is defined as in bounds. Ten seconds requires team control in the back court, which is defined as in bounds.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't think it would be needed for the 3 second or 10 second counts. Three seconds requires team control in the front court, which is defined as in bounds. Ten seconds requires team control in the back court, which is defined as in bounds.

Actually the definition only uses the words endline and division line, and says nothing about the sidelines, so yes, for clarity sake, the word inbounds should be stated.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't think it would be needed for the 3 second or 10 second counts. Three seconds requires team control in the front court, which is defined as in bounds. Ten seconds requires team control in the back court, which is defined as in bounds.

I do believe the NCAA rules have '3 seconds' as an exception for Throw-ins.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I do believe the NCAA rules have '3 seconds' as an exception for Throw-ins.

Perhaps, but if they do, it's a redundancy (assuming the 3 second rule is otherwise worded exactly the same as it is in NFHS).
editing: Okay, this is incorrect based on my drawn out post below this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Actually the definition only uses the words endline and division line, and says nothing about the sidelines, so yes, for clarity sake, the word inbounds should be stated.

Let's see.

Originally Posted by Rule 9-8

A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

Originally Posted by Rule 9-7-1

A player shall not remain for three seconds... while the ball is in control of his/her team in his/her frontcourt.

Originally Posted by Rule 4-35

Art. 1. The location of a player or nonplayer is determined by where the player is touchingthe floor as far as being:
a. Inbounds or out of bounds.
b. In the frontcourt or backcourt.
c. Outside (behind/beyond) or inside the three-poin field-goal line.
Art. 2. When a player is touching the backcourt, out of bounds or the three-point line, the player is located in backcourt, out of bounds, or inside the three-point line, respectively.
Art. 3. The location of an airborne player....

Originally Posted by Rule 4-4

Art. 1. A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the backcourt if either the ball or the player is touching the backcourt.
Art. 2. A ball which is in contact with a player is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt.

I maintain that the 10 second violation would still not apply during a throwin even if team control does, because the ball does not get BC status until either it or the player touching it touches the BC. This would not be happening on a throwin.

If you define a throwin as having team control, then you would need to start the 10 second count once the inbounds pass touched the floor in the BC, or once it was tipped by a player from either team in the throwin team's BC.

Adding "in bounds" to the 10 second violation definition would do nothing to change that, however, so the definition would need to be tweaked further to prevent that.

I will concede that the 3 second count would need to start during a throwin (if an offensive player was in the lane) if team control is added; based strictly on the phrase in red above.

This could be rectified by adding "or out of bounds" to article 2. As article 2 is worded, the ball has front court status during a throwin no matter where the throwin is spotted. Adding team control to a throwin would also require an exception to the backcourt rule unless the phrase "or out of bounds" is added to 4-4-2.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let's see.




I maintain that the 10 second violation would still not apply during a throwin even if team control does, because the ball does not get BC status until either it or the player touching it touches the BC. This would not be happening on a throwin.

If you define a throwin as having team control, then you would need to start the 10 second count once the inbounds pass touched the floor in the BC, or once it was tipped by a player from either team in the throwin team's BC.

Adding "in bounds" to the 10 second violation definition would do nothing to change that, however, so the definition would need to be tweaked further to prevent that.

I will concede that the 3 second count would need to start during a throwin (if an offensive player was in the lane) if team control is added; based strictly on the phrase in red above.

This could be rectified by adding "or out of bounds" to article 2. As article 2 is worded, the ball has front court status during a throwin no matter where the throwin is spotted. Adding team control to a throwin would also require an exception to the backcourt rule unless the phrase "or out of bounds" is added to 4-4-2.

The one you forgot, that would still make things unclear:

4 SECTION 13 COURT AREAS

ART. 1 . . . The frontcourt of a team consists of that part of the court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of the backboard.

ART. 2 . . . The backcourt of a team consists of the rest of the court, including the entire division line and the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the opponent's backboard.

[Nevadaref]

Sorry boys, but you are having a pointless discussion. Those issues are NOT on the list of proposed changes.

But feel free to continue anyway!