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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 09:55pm
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Women's Championship Game

Things I noticed from the 1st half.

(15:08) 3 Second Violation. Player enters the lane at 15:08, receives pass at 15:07. Turns to basket, takes one dribble and shoots. C blows whistle with 15:06 on the clock for a 3 second violation.

(13:44) Great Call! Lead comes and gets travel.

(11:52) ESPN2 The announcers drawing of a guitar on the computer looks like a ***** (well here's a hint, there is only one on the court and it rhymes with Venus.)

(11:32) Great call from lead. Player is cutting along endline and defender acts like she doesn't see her and backs into the cutter.

(10:47) Parker runs down the court and dislodges defender 5 feet. Officials will probably see if she does it again or if defender was flopping some.

(6:52) PC Foul. Should have been a block! Red player is 1 foot in the air before White player establishes LGP. However she sold it well (from across the paint ) It definitely needed a whistle!

(1:15) Should be an offensive foul on Red #10 for holding the player from getting the ball. If she picked up the ball it would have been a double dribble, IMO. I don't believe this is a fumble like the announcers where saying b/c she rerouted the ball when she saw the defender.
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Old Tue Apr 03, 2007, 11:25pm
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2nd Half

(16:21) Great call! Tripped the ball handler.

(14:13) Blows whistle when try is in flight. Shot clock was supposed to be reset because it hits the rim but it doesn't reset at that split second so the shot clock horn goes off with ball in shooters hand. Everyone plays on but whistle blows when the ball is bouncing around the rim. I was originally thinking that it should be AP arrow because whistle blows when ball is in air on try. After second thought he probably was stopping play because of the shot clock horn going off, so at that time the player had the ball. Any thoughts?

(13:31) Good job by Lisa to call the Delay of Game Warning on the Ruetgers player for hitting ball away from Tennessee on made basket.

Overall VERY GOOD Officiated game!
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 05:25am
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Looks like the SEC was the top conference for this year. National champs on both sides of the aisle.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 08:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart
Things I noticed from the 1st half.

(1:15) Should be an offensive foul on Red #10 for holding the player from getting the ball. If she picked up the ball it would have been a double dribble, IMO. I don't believe this is a fumble like the announcers where saying b/c she rerouted the ball when she saw the defender.
If she picked up the ball it could not have been a double (illegal) dribble - that requires you to dribble again after holding the ball. It could have been ruled a travel, but I think not.
She clearly fumbled the ball while trying to pass.
However, I do not think she could dribble again with out it being ruled an illegal dribble, because she had put two hands on the ball prior to the fumble.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 08:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
If she picked up the ball it could not have been a double (illegal) dribble - that requires you to dribble again after holding the ball. It could have been ruled a travel, but I think not.
She clearly fumbled the ball while trying to pass.
However, I do not think she could dribble again with out it being ruled an illegal dribble, because she had put two hands on the ball prior to the fumble.
You beat me to it on the double dribble. I didn't have the luxury of TIVO, but I did see the play on 5 huge big screens at the local Barnacles, and I thought she would've been okay to pick the ball up. I mean your trying to hold off 2 defenders from getting to the ball, why not just pick it up and see what happens versus holding off the defender and risk getting the foul called on you.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 10:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
If she picked up the ball it could not have been a double (illegal) dribble - that requires you to dribble again after holding the ball. It could have been ruled a travel, but I think not.
She clearly fumbled the ball while trying to pass.
However, I do not think she could dribble again with out it being ruled an illegal dribble, because she had put two hands on the ball prior to the fumble.
I thought when I first saw it that she could pick it up....but with my DVR instant replay on my couch and the beneft of unlimited replays ...

Player dribbled, picked up the ball with both hands to throw to a teammate. Her teammate's back is turned and the defender was going to steal the pass.

Player reroutes the ball back towards herself and it bounces on the floor in front of her.

The only thing you have to determine on this play is if she fumbled the ball or purposely choose not to throw it b/c of the defender. IMO she was purposely not throwing it for that reason, therefore it would have been a double dribble IF she had touched the ball again.

I do agree with JoeTheRef that she should have just picked it up and taken the chance.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart
The only thing you have to determine on this play is if she fumbled the ball or purposely choose not to throw it b/c of the defender. IMO she was purposely not throwing it for that reason, therefore it would have been a double dribble IF she had touched the ball again.
First let me clarify I am not saying she could or could not pick up the ball without a violation being called here, I have only seen the play at full speed and was not really paying attention.
I am saying is that had she picked up the ball - if there was a violation - it would not have been for illegally dribbling the ball .
Reasoning:
A dribble starts with batting or throwing the ball to the floor.
So since she had picked the ball up ending her dribble and thrown or batted it to the floor that would be the illegal dribble right there.
So since the whistle did not blow at that point picking up the ball at this point has nothing to do with the illegal dribble.
It could have been a travel - lifting and replacing the pivot on the floor.

but I would guess that it was a fumble and nothing would have been called - to the dismay of a lot of fans.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
First let me clarify I am not saying she could or could not pick up the ball without a violation being called here, I have only seen the play at full speed and was not really paying attention.
I am saying is that had she picked up the ball - if there was a violation - it would not have been for illegally dribbling the ball .
Reasoning:
A dribble starts with batting or throwing the ball to the floor.
So since she had picked the ball up ending her dribble and thrown or batted it to the floor that would be the illegal dribble right there.
So since the whistle did not blow at that point picking up the ball at this point has nothing to do with the illegal dribble.
It could have been a travel - lifting and replacing the pivot on the floor.
This is incorrect.

Player dribbles the ball, picks it up and then starts to dribble again (by throwing the ball towards the floor). Then the player realizes that she had already dribbled and so she does not touch the ball again. This is NOT an "illegal dribble" it would be if she touches the ball again.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:07pm
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Definitions
Section 15 Art 3 the dribble may be started by pushin, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.
Art 4 the dribble ends when;
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

Violations and Penalties
Section 5: Illegal Dribble
Aplayer shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of;
Art 1 A try for field goal,
Art 2 A bat by an opponent,
Art 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched or been touched by, another player.

So you are saying that the illegal dribble does not occur until the ball is touched the second time but the dribble starts when the ball is batted to the floor?

Ex. A1 standing still legally starts his/her dribble by batting the ball to the floor, and moves toward the basket, after several steps A1 places both hands on the ball then intentionally bats the ball to the floor again and;
a. Continues to dribble
b. Runs along side the ball, without touching it.
You have an illegal dribble in one and not in the other?

I believe that the violation occurs when the dribble starts.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
Ex. A1 standing still legally starts his/her dribble by batting the ball to the floor, and moves toward the basket, after several steps A1 places both hands on the ball then intentionally bats the ball to the floor again and;
a. Continues to dribble
b. Runs along side the ball, without touching it.
You have an illegal dribble in one and not in the other?

I believe that the violation occurs when the dribble starts.
DD in a.

Nothing in b.

Otherwise a bounce pass would be a DD.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_Heart
This is incorrect.

Player dribbles the ball, picks it up and then starts to dribble again (by throwing the ball towards the floor). Then the player realizes that she had already dribbled and so she does not touch the ball again. This is NOT an "illegal dribble" it would be if she touches the ball again.
Can you not have a dribble after the dribble has started? I have the violation as soon as the second dribble starts.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:25pm
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I'm going to lay this out so my brain can understand it since I haven't seen the play.

1. A1 has picked up her dribble.
2. A1 starts to pass but re-thinks and either attempts to hold the ball or redirects her pass downward.

Can A1 pick up the ball? If this is not considered a fumble, she cannot pick up the ball, it would be an illegal dribble. It's the same play you have if the player, after having picked up a dribble, passes the ball and proceeds to chase it down. Once they touch the ball, it becomes a dribble.

In this case, it's a violation even if she didn't move her pivot foot (again, assuming it's not ruled a fumble), because it becomes an illegal dribble once she .
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
DD in a.

Nothing in b.

Otherwise a bounce pass would be a DD.
A bounce pass is a pass. Unless a teammate is standing on the dribbler's shoulders, if she starts the second dribble, she's violated. I can differentiate between when a player throws a bounce pass and when a person starts a dribble. Once I make that distinction that she's started a second illegal dribble, I would violate that dribbler.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I'm going to lay this out so my brain can understand it since I haven't seen the play.

1. A1 has picked up her dribble.
2. A1 starts to pass but re-thinks and either attempts to hold the ball or redirects her pass downward.

Can A1 pick up the ball? If this is not considered a fumble, she cannot pick up the ball, it would be an illegal dribble. It's the same play you have if the player, after having picked up a dribble, passes the ball and proceeds to chase it down. Once they touch the ball, it becomes a dribble.

In this case, it's a violation even if she didn't move her pivot foot (again, assuming it's not ruled a fumble), because it becomes an illegal dribble once she .
Your description of what happened is accurate. She dribbled, picked up her dribble and then went to pass. She tried to re-direct the pass as it got away from her, and then realized she couldn't pick it up again. It would have been DD as soon as she touched it.
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Old Wed Apr 04, 2007, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
Once I make that distinction that she's started a second illegal dribble, I would violate that dribbler.
That seems like kinda of a harsh punishment!! ( )
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