Warning!! Danger!! Annual Off-topic Baseball Thread '07!! Beware!!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by mick

You lived in a fish?

Maybe his real name is Jonah?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Maybe his real name is Jonah?

That was a WHALE, sheesh!

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That was a WHALE, sheesh!

Oh, thanks for playing, but that was not the answer we were looking for! The New International Version, King James Version (least reliable), New King James Version and the New American Standard all say Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish".

You were perhaps confused by the story of Pinocchio, who was indeed swallowed by a whale.

You probably also think that Noah took 2 of every animal into the ark with him.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Oh, thanks for playing, but that was not the answer we were looking for! The New International Version, King James Version (least reliable), New King James Version and the New American Standard all say Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish".

You were perhaps confused by the story of Pinocchio, who was indeed swallowed by a whale.

You probably also think that Noah took 2 of every animal into the ark with him.

Oh, thank YOU for playing, but the Hebrew term 'dahg', commonly translated as 'fish', is the generic term of a desert people for swimming sea creatures.

Ancient cultures generally did not distinguish in thought or concept between mammalian and non-mammalian sea creatures, and so the use of the term 'dahg' would not exclude a whale.

Jerome's vulgate (early 5th century Latin translation) introduces the term 'cetus' in this context, from which word the study of whales (cetology) derives its name.

Although I don't believe the story, it is more plausible to claim that an individual was swallowed whole by a whale rather than a shark.

You are probably confused: the story of Pinocchio is fiction, so no one was indeed swallowed by a whale (though Pinocchio was in the story).

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Oh, thank YOU for playing, but the Hebrew term 'dahg', commonly translated as 'fish', is the generic term of a desert people for swimming sea creatures.

Ancient cultures generally did not distinguish in thought or concept between mammalian and non-mammalian sea creatures, and so the use of the term 'dahg' would not exclude a whale.

Although I did not know the actual Hebrew word (I took Greek, but no Hebrew), I did know that "fish" is a generic term. I also believe that these texts are not to be treated as scientific treatises, so literal interpretation of any of them is likely to be misleading (IMHO). And although "fish" may not rule out a whale, too many modern people who think they know the biblical texts are certain that Jonah is said to be swallowed by a whale, which is simply not true. Just as they are "certain" that all the animals that boarded Noah's ark came in pairs.

(Jerome's contribution is interesting, but from your description, it sounds like he inserted his own interpretation. I'm woefully ignorant about anything having to do with the Vulgate, so I could be completely off-base. I'm just going by your description of "introducing" the new term.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

(Jerome's contribution is interesting, but from your description, it sounds like he inserted his own interpretation. I'm woefully ignorant about anything having to do with the Vulgate, so I could be completely off-base. I'm just going by your description of "introducing" the new term.)

I think that you're right about Jerome, and that he offered a more plausible reading of the Hebrew text of Jonah--one abandoned by later translators in favor of 'fish' with its misleading taxonomic connotations.

Can we get back to baseball now? The Indians have several one-run games against the Twins to win over the next few days...

[Dan_ref]

So we're arguing whether the report of a human being swallowed whole by a 'fish' and escaping to tell the story is more accurate if the 'fish' is a whale or some other non-mammal sea creature.

OK then...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Can we get back to baseball now? The Indians have several one-run games against the Twins to win over the next few days...

I posted this on Monday.

Tuesday: Indians 8, Twins 3
Wednesday: Indians 6, Twins 5
Thursday: Indians 4, Twins 3

Maybe "several" was an exaggeration...

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Although I did not know the actual Hebrew word (I took Greek, but no Hebrew), I did know that "fish" is a generic term. I also believe that these texts are not to be treated as scientific treatises, so literal interpretation of any of them is likely to be misleading (IMHO). And although "fish" may not rule out a whale, too many modern people who think they know the biblical texts are certain that Jonah is said to be swallowed by a whale, which is simply not true. Just as they are "certain" that all the animals that boarded Noah's ark came in pairs.

(Jerome's contribution is interesting, but from your description, it sounds like he inserted his own interpretation. I'm woefully ignorant about anything having to do with the Vulgate, so I could be completely off-base. I'm just going by your description of "introducing" the new term.)

Gentlemen, could we get back to the on-topic off-topic discussion of baseball?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Gentlemen, could we get back to the on-topic off-topic discussion of baseball?

Fine. Hey, anybody notice that the Tigers are winning 7-0 in the fourth inning over the Yankees? Polanco just hit a shot off of some string bean in a Yankee uniform. Edwar Ramirez has a career total of 9.2 innings pitched in 7 appearances before tonight. He's listed at 6'3" and 150 pounds!!

Has there been a worse "big game" pitcher than Mike Mussina over the last 3 or 4 years? Seems like he has this reputation as one of those guys you want on the mound if you had to win one game. But he always seems shaky in those games.

If the score holds, the Yanks will drop to 8 games behind the Sox and the Tigers will pull within 2 games of Cleveland. Go Tiggers!

Tonight's AL West game should be a real good one, too. M's versus Angels. the pitching matchup is Batista (13-9) vs. Lackey (15-8). Too bad I'll be asleep by the time it starts.

Ok, I'm gonna go watch a little bit of Mr. Tony in the MNF booth.