My understanding is that he quit doing it before Baseball banned it; and that at this point, the federal probe isn't accusing him of any wrong doing.

Legally, he's probably in the clear.

Morally?

And......the basic problem with HGH remains. There isn't a reliable test for it yet afaik, so it can be used with relative impunity if received from a confidential source. I have this funny kind of feeling that we all might be amazed if we did find out about the actual incidence of HGH usage in professional sports.

"In the clear" ?
I get it !

Same with Mark and Barry, methinks.

Given Jim Leyland's recent remarks, perhaps you might direct your focus to opponents of those-who-must-not-be-named.
Leyland turns focus to wild card (Detroit News)

Lord Byron,
I read that earlier this week.
He's wrong, or more likely, he was just trying to disarm the Tribe, ...to keep them from looking over their shoulders and seeing a team that just got three pitchers back, and a slugger. [Heck, Kenny Rogers threw a (one) pitch in the mid-90s t'other day, Rodney is up to mid-90s, and ZoomZoom is finding triple digits.] ;)

OK, well, you just keep your dreams alive for 22 more games, but remember: the higher your hopes, the harder the crash landing. ;)

Higher the hopes ?
Ha !
Detroit went on a free fall 6 weeks ago. Right now I can feel a sense of a chute opening.

So far - you're right. But we're getting pretty close.

Hey Mick, you might be interested to know that the Indians' AA team (Akron) is playing the Tigers' AA team (Erie) in the Eastern League division series.

I went to the game tonight and saw Akron beat Erie to take a 2-1 lead in the best of 5 series. Jeromy Sowers pitched a beauty.

Hey, that's pretty cool. I think I saw (on TV) about 5 minor leaguers playing in Detroit tonight. I think some of them came from the Erie team.

Man, I would enjoy seeing a Minor league game ! I think our nearest possibility is in Madison, Wisconsin.

Close one on the Left Coast tonight.

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Great fun! Tix were $6, but as I walked up to the stadium a guy said to me "hey, you got tickets?" "Not yet," says I. "Here's some coupons," and he hands me a couple coupons to get in for $1, courtesy of a local grocery store.

Even with brats and beers, the evening set me back less than $20. Plus we had 4 innings of pitchers' duel, and then two big multi-run homers by the home team. Gotta love the minor leagues!

Back in '94 (I hate being old :( ), I went to a game in Appleton, Wisc to see the Appleton Foxes. That was a fun night. Less than a week earlier, I'd seen the Cubbies play in Wrigley for the first time. Pretty fun week. :)

Sox won last night. So did the Yankees, but oh well. You can't have everything. Where would you put it? (Sorry about your M's, DJ.)

Ooh! Appleton, Wisconsin is closer than Madison, Wisconsin !
Ooh! Detroit, Michigan is closer to Nyork, Nyork than Seattle, Washington.

Back around '52 (:D ), my dad took me to a minor league game between our local team and a touring team called the Indianapolis Clowns. The Clowns had an infielder named Hank Aaron playing for them. I heard a rumor somewhere that he eventually made it to the Bigs.

Back then, every town seemed to have a minor league team of some kind, affiliated or not. And every town supported the heck out of <b>their</b> team too.

Alas, a quieter, gentler age........

Curtis Granderson (6'1, 185#, 26 y.o.] is nice young man from Chicago (Blue Island, IL and UIC) who plays centerfield for Detroit since joing the Tigers in 2004.

"Granderson joined the 20-homer, 20-triple, 20-double club with Brett, Mays in 1957 for the New York Giants, Jeff Heath of the Cleveland Indians in 1941, Jim Bottomley of the St. Louis Cardinals in 1928, and Frank Schulte of the Chicago Cubs in 1911. Granderson is one stolen base away from his 20th, which would put him in company with just Mays and Schulte." - usatoday.com *

*Actually: 36-2B; 21-3B; 20 hr

I heard Granderson interviewed on the radio a couple weeks ago. He struck me as a remarkably intelligent, thoughtful, and well-spoken individual - certainly far above your average jock. Not a lot of pro athletes I'd like to meet, but Granderson is one.

The AAA Portland Beavers announced they were dropping their plans to change the team's nickname. They originally considered changing it because Oregon Duck fans would throw things at the Beaver mascot yelling that he represented Oregon State (also the Beavers) and also just because it was the same nickname as OSU.

The public survey they conducted was about 90% against changing, so they're going to stick with Beavers. Since the team has had that nickname ever since the Pacific Coast League was formed in 1903, it's the right thing to do. It especially sounds much better than one of the suggested changes - the Wet Sox. :eek:

http://portlandbeavers.com.ismmedia....omerArmsUp.jpg

Yeah, but DJ bought me chowdah! :)

Besides, looks like your crew is ahead again tonight, Mick. Sox are up early, too.

'Cuz they couldn't see their big league favorite team on TV every night.

Really?!? I thought these guys were pretty loud and rough. . .

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/3...3af3c430_m.jpg

Also 'cuz they couldn't see their favorite big league team on TV <b>any</b> night. There was one game on TV a week--on Saturday afternoons--starring Dizzy Dean singing the Wabash Cannonball when he got bored.

Um, never mind. Dice-K had one of his patented one-inning brain cramp blow-ups. I hate those.

Dizzy (whose brother was named "Daffy") used to get letters from English teachers criticizing his usage of the language. They said he was a bad influence on the youth of America. He would say things like "he slud into 3rd base". When he was broadcasting games on the radio during WWII, announcers were not allowed to indicate what the weather was like (security measure). One game, Dean said something like, "I ain't allowed to tell you what the weather's like, but that ain't sweat on the pitcher's forehead." :D

http://www.nndb.com/people/034/00008...zzy-dean-1.jpg

DJ is in town ? Or you're in Dj's town? Neat. I like chowda with a little too much white peppa.

Go Angels !

Your mojo didn't work last night, Mick. It was CC's show (complete game win - again - and win #17 ties him for league lead!).

Magic number: 16. That's still high, of course. ;)

Lord Byron,
What mojo? I am merely having good thoughts for the Tigers and for the Indians' opponents.

[Although..., I have been sacrificing chipmunks and red squirrels to Orion so that the Tigers may win each series and the Indians' opponents may split each series.]

Granderson singled and stole #20 in the first inning on Sunday.

Careful, I believe that the order rodentia is a sensitive topic in these parts. :)

Opening weekend in the NFL and the Seahawks beat the Lions, 14-7.

Well, it sure looks like a football score. . . :confused:

Ha! Yeah, Bombederman started. :)

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=black12bold width="30%">Name</TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%">IP</TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%">H</TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%">R</TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%">ER</TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%"></TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%"></TD><TD class=black12bold align=right width="10%"></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cccccc colSpan=8 height=1>http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD class=black11>J Bonderman (L, 11-9) </TD><TD class=black11 align=right>1.1</TD><TD class=black11 align=right>7</TD><TD class=black11 align=right>6</TD><TD class=black11 align=right>6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Bad day for my home town of Chicago. The White Sox, the Cubs and Da Bears all lost. :(

I guess it's a good thing the Bulls and the Blackhawks didn't play.

I don't get it, Chuck. :confused:

Check the Mariners - Tigers score.

Elbow problems, Mick. Bonderman could be done for the year.

Arrogance of youth !
He knew he was hurt, but figured he could help the team better than one of his healthy teammates could help.

Fox Sports reported he is suffering from Mickey Mantle syndrome. Too much elbow bending at the bar. ;)

Jays at Tigers 4-1 bottom 9th
Tigers get a hit and Jays SS [McDonald] starts a *Sport Center* blow-your-socks-off DP.
2 outs.
Tigers score 4 with two out.:)

Yeah, I watched it unfold on MLB.com.

Fortunately, the Tribe came back after rain and spanked the hapless Sox.

13!

Thanks.
I was wonderin' how bad it was. And now Pudge left last night's game with dizziness.
Oh, my!

Hey, I'm back! (Here's a preemptive "shut up" for JR.) I've been in Orlando for most of the last week with my dad and haven't been able to check in regularly. Sox lost last night in a well-pitched game. How do we lose a 1-0 pitchers' duel to Tampa Bay??!?! :confused:

Sox still have the best record in baseball, but they now have the smallest division lead in the AL. Yankees are only 5 games back, after both teams went 7-3 in their last 10. They meet up for a weekend series starting Friday, which I think wraps up the regular season series for them. Dice-K, Beckett and Schill for the Sox; Pettitte, Wang, and Hughes for the Evil Empire.

Sox only have 17 games left and 5 of those are against Tampa Bay. Yankees have 3 against Tampa Bay, but 6 against the O's.

They score one run and you don't score any.

I'm always here for ya.....

So, basically, Yankees are going to win 2 out of 3.

Hey Mick, how many will your Tigers take from the Twins? (I'll make it easy for you)

a. 0
b. 1
c. 2
d. 3

One at a time, Lord Byron.
Tigers need 2.
I think Santana is pitching on Saturday. :(
Only the Tribe has won every game against him.

Shut up. :(

:D <i></i>

If you're gonna blow a 7-1 lead one night, I guess the best follow-up is to blow 'em out 10-1 the next night. And hey, the bullpen actually made it thru 2 innings without giving up a run. That pushes the division lead back to 5.5 and cuts the Yankees wild card lead to 3 games. Tigers are already up 4 runs on the Twins tonight, so that lead may be 2.5 by the end of the night.

Go Royals ! :)

What ever happened to the dueling football thread? And won't we all think 'Belicheck' when we hear the word 'Donaghy'?

I won't think about Donaghy, and I doubt that Belichick did anything but take all of the blame.

Uh, yeah, maybe they can avoid a sweep! :D

Maybe so. Merely avoiding a sweep works for me.
Tigers still need plenty of help, and adding a little perfume to the visitors dugout in Cleveland would make scents. :)

:(
CUBS 4 CARDINALS 2
:(
THERE GO THE CARDINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:(

Not a bad weekend. The Evil Empire takes 2 of 3 from that other team. :D

I'm still in shock from reading <i>"the <b>undefeated</b> Detroit Lions..."</i>.....

Should have saved a couple of those extra runs for the next night when they actually might have meant something.

Anyway, 4 down on the loss side with like a dozen left. Still hope. That team in Detroit is hanging in too.

I'm thinking Raider fans have to be in shock after having the game stolen from them by Shanahan last night.

If the Raiders ever win a game, their fans will be in shock.

Well, the BoSox did try something new last night. They hit Rivera with a pitch in his own bullpen while he was warming up to go in. Got him on his pitching elbow. Almost worked too.

That's gotta be a first.

Hey, did you hear the rumor Anheuser-Busch is planning on moving the Cardinals to the Philippines next year?

They're going to re-name them the Manila Folders.

(Look out, I've a bunch of old Cub jokes I can use on Cardinal fans. Years and years of jokes...)

Thome hits #500 yesterday. Here's a couple of tidbits I heard:

3 players hit #500 this year; this is the first year that's ever happened.

Thome's HR was first #500 to be a walk-off HR.

As much as the Sox have been down this year, it's good to see one of the good guys in the game get some well-deserved recognition.

99 years and counting worth of jokes......

How many current players are members of the 500 club? Have there ever been this many playing at the same time?

I thought I remembered seeing 23 total.

I mean, I remember seeing 23 names on the list. I assume JR's the only one to have seen all 23 players in person.

Well, if you don't know the answer, you could have just said so.

Doesn't work that way, does it? :( The '06 version of Big Papi would've won that game for us. He is still having a very good year statistically, but just isn't coming through in the clutch like last year. (Maybe Papi and ARod switched mojo's before this season started.)

On the plus side, the Pats kicked the Chargers' butts last night. It was never even a game. Video or no video, they're the best team in the NFL.

He's the fourth fastest to reach 500. I find it kind of curious that, in the middle of the steroid era, I haven't heard anybody seriously question whether any of this year's guys (ARod, Frank Thomas, Thome) are juiced. Is that being bandied about somewhere and I'm just unaware of it?

You're right - I'm sorry.

I don't know how many JR's seen in person.

I haven't heard any whispers either. In fact, most of the comments I've heard, when the names are mentioned together with the steroid issue, is that people are happy these names aren't associated.

Indians beat Tiger in a good game.
Darn !

Yeah, and the CARDINALS will move on with their TEN (10) WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP trophies/banners. But, You and my brother can retell and rehash all the old jokes that you'all can think of. He's a Cubs fan who also resides in the great state of Illinoise - and a fellow official. I'll hanging out with him this weekend so I'm sure to get an earful of Cubbie banter. I will survive. WAIT 'TILL NEXT YEAR!! Now where have heard that line before? :( It does sting a little now that the shoe is on the other foot. :(

Sheesh !
Cleveland was the better team again.
Much better.

Hey Mick, wanna go to the game today? Starts at noon - can you make it?

Magic number = 5

http://www.clevelandseniors.com/phot...olan/wahoo.jpg

Thanks for the offer, but Cleveland is a pretty good haul from U.P. here.
I suppose Carsten Charles Sabathia will be pitching better than Nate Robertson, and that the 5 will become a 3

Verlander tossed a nifty little 5 hitter....

I also, humbly, with crow on top, recline post 1012.

Two words: Eric. . . Gagne. Yeesh. :(

Gotta give credit where credit is due, tho. Yankees have been playing great baseball for the last two months, but especially the last two weeks. Sox still have a magic number but it's not getting any smaller.

Again, sorry Mick.

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/msa...ping_jumbo.gif

Go Tribe!

Nice broom.
Was that 12 of 18 games?
Better team won.

...And, the thing is, you don't look that sorry ! ;)

Mick: don't feel too badly. Your team was swept by the best team in baseball (.592 today).

Ha! That's pretty good!
And Boston is down a run. :)

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=12 height=18>American League</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left width="22%" height=18> East</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="5%">W</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="5%">L</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="7%">Pct</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="7%">GB</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="7%">Home</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="7%">Road</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">East</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Cent</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">West</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="9%">Streak</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="7%">L10</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> Boston Red Sox (9)</TD><TD>90</TD><TD>63</TD><TD>.588</TD><TD>--</TD><TD>47-28</TD><TD>43-35</TD><TD>40-29</TD><TD>20-11</TD><TD>18-17</TD><TD>Lost 4</TD><TD>4-6</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> New York Yankees</TD><TD>88</TD><TD>64</TD><TD>.579</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>50-27</TD><TD>38-37</TD><TD>33-29</TD><TD>30-11</TD><TD>15-16</TD><TD>Won 4</TD><TD>8-2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Pardon my French, but right now Chuck's a$$ is so tight that if you stuck a lump of coal up there in two weeks you'd have a diamond! :D

8-2 in their last 10 is pretty good - only one other team in baseball has done that (care to guess :D).

Your table demonstrates that the Yankees will be in good shape unless they have to play anyone on the road or from the West. ;)

I think I'm going to be sick. :(

Thank you for that update, Ferris. :(

Mark DeRosa of the Cubs wishes he could play against Cincinnati the rest of the season. In the last 4 games against the Reds, including this just-completed series, he's 14-for-15. Not bad.

If you ask him Chuck will tell you he sh!ts diamonds already.

For the first time since Beckett beat the Yankees back at Fenway last week, the Red Sox won and the Yankees lost last night. I think that makes the Sox magic number 5. Yanks are losing again this afternoon, but it's still early.

Since the Sox aren't on till later, here's a trivia factoid about September call-ups. Arliss Taylor pitched just one game for the Philadelphia A's in 1921. In fact, he lasted only 2 innings against the Indians.

He gave up seven hits and struck out only one batter. Who was Taylor's sole strikeout victim? (For the answer, see post #358 in this thread!)

It's now late.:)

Check again, Chuck - the magic number only dropped from 9 to 7.

(Although it should be about a 3 or 4 by now.)

If the Indians win or the Tigers lose today, the Tribe will be the first team in baseball to clinch. (The Angels can clinch today, but their game starts 2 hours later.) Go Tribe!

Um, no. The BoSox clinched a playoff spot yesterday. They also have a better record than Cleveland right now too. And their last World Series win was in 2004 as opposed to......1948? Gee, that's closing in on 60 years, isn't it?

Hell, even I can't remember the last time that Cleveland won a World Series.

Look at the bright side. You could be a Cubbies' fan.:D

Clinch their division, of course. I'd much rather have a title than a mere berth.

For a minion of the evil empire, you're pretty quick to defend the BoSox. :p

Minion? I'm gonna get someone to look that up for me. You might be in trouble, Mister. I know where you live.

How many wild-card teams have ended up winning either their league title or the World Series in the last few years? A few methinks. It just depends on who gets hot in October. Hell, look at the Cards last year. Anyone who actually thinks that they were the best team in baseball in 2006 is either a die-hard Cards fan or into the wacky-tobaccy big time. Hell, anytime Jeff Weaver dominates <b>anybody</b> has to be height of surreal.

Tigers last year.
Yankees this year.

Didn't the Tigers win their division last year? I thought that they had the best record in the AL, iirc.

I Googled the wild card. Since the wild card came in in 1995, 4 teams have won the World Series from that position.
- Marlins in 1997 and 2003, Angels in 2002 and BoSox in 2004.

Indians clinch, Angels clinch, Red Sox lose, Yankees win. Did I miss anything? (NL doesn't count. Yet.)

If the season ended today, NYY would be entitled to a heapin' helpin' of Sabathia and Carmona... My prediction, though, is that Boston will not see 95 wins and the Yanks will.

Yankees lost yesterday, putting the Sox up 2 games with 6 to play, and a playoff spot already clinched. While it would be embarrassing to lose the division after leading by 14 games, it's some consolation that the Red Sox won the World Series as a wild card last time. Angels, Indians and Sox are in, everything else is up in the air, especially in the NL. What's the deal with Milton Bradley? What could the ump have said to set him off that badly?

Since I'm running out of time in the season, I figure now's a good time to give you the update on my tour of MLB ballparks. I know you've been waiting on the edge of your seat. :rolleyes:

Anyway, here is where you can find the initial list http://forum.officiating.com/showpos...&postcount=288 and here is last year's update http://forum.officiating.com/showpos...&postcount=657 .

This year, my buddy and I made a swing through the southeast. We went to Atlanta, Miami and Tampa. We usually only do 2 parks a year, but if we did that, we'd have to make another trip just for one of them. It seemed easier to just do them all at once. The downside of this approach was that we had almost no time at all in any of the cities to look around town.

First up was Turner Field. The park is very nice from the outside. Lots of statues of Brave greats, as well as a statue of Georgia native Ty Cobb. There's a huge screen outside the right field wall, so you can watch the game if you're hanging around outside in the gift shop or in the Nickelodeon-themed kids' area. Inside, it was pretty average. Not a lot of very interesting features. All the seats had good views, of course, since the ballpark is relatively new; and we were able to move a little bit closer to the field within our section. The food was pretty standard and boring. Pizza, hot dogs, etc. And the BBQ pork was terrible. The one really fun thing about this visit was that we got to witness the third of Brandon Webb's three consecutive complete game shut-outs. I think he only gave up 2 hits. That was pretty cool to watch.

From Atlanta, we drove to Miami to see Dolphins Stadium. The Marlins play in a football stadium and that pretty much says it all. No atmosphere, no baseball feel. The only interesting feature is the scoreboard in left field which is big and green (where'd they get that idea?). The food here was also very standard and boring, which surprised me since Miami is such a diverse community. The stadium was easy to get to and parking was reasonable. Also, Blues Traveler did a mini-concert after the game as part of a weekend concert series that the Marlins sponsor. It was ok, but we didn't stay very long. The best part of Miami was that our hotel was on Miami Beach and the back door basically opened onto the ocean. Very cool. $60 on Priceline, baby!

After a quick drive across Alligator Alley, we ended up at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg. (Side note: while driving I-75, we found a radio station that gives lots of interesting information about the Everglades and the species that live there. If you can stand a little self-improvement, or if you're a teacher and think your kids might find it interesting, you can listen online at www.evergladesradionetwork.com) Again, the park was very easy to get to, and the drive across Tampa Bay into St. Pete is gorgeous. There's lots of parking and they don't even charge for it. The Trop is a domed stadium and the dome is angled, slightly slanted. It's very strange visually, actually. Not very attractive. The inside is also very bland -- and COLD!! The Devil Rays obviously don't draw many fans, and there were more Indians fans than Rays fans there. We did, however, see the guy that sits right behind home plate and heckles one visiting player loudly for the entire game. He was pretty funny. There is also an actual tank of devil rays outside the center field wall. That was pretty cool for the kids that were there. The food was actually outstanding at the Trop. They had the cultural variety that I expected in Miami. There was a Cuban/Mexican selection, and an Asian menu. There were also the usual stuff (the chili/cheese fries were really good) and there was an Outback that had a really good steak and mushroom dish. Plus, it was very easy to move to better seats. We started out in the second ring of seats but quickly moved down to the bottom level about 20 feet down the 3rd base line, 15 rows back.

So my personal updated rankings are:

1. Camden Yard (Baltimore)
2. PNC (Pittsburgh)
3. Citizens' Bank Park (Philly)
4. Yankee Stadium (NY)
5. Great American Ballpark (Cincinnati)
6. SkyDome (Toronto)
7. Jacobs' Field (Cleveland)
8. Comerica Park (Detroit)
9. Tropicana Field (Tampa/St. Pete)
10. Turner Field (Atlanta)
11. Olympic Stadium (Montreal)
12. Dolphins Stadium (Miami)
13. Shea Stadium (NY)

BTW, if you're not already completely fed up with my talk about ballparks, you can compare my rankings to those on ESPN's Page 2: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stadiums

There's a thread on the baseball board about it (though it doesn't pick up on Bradley till page 2, and I just made a hijack post):
link to thread