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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:46pm
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Held Ball /TO?

A1 looses control of the ball and falls to the floor. B1 dives for the looses ball also. A1 cannot get his/her hands on the ball so he/she clamps both legs around the ball just as B1 puts his/her hands on the ball. Both players call TO at the same time.

What you got?
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
A1 looses control of the ball and falls to the floor. B1 dives for the looses ball also. A1 cannot get his/her hands on the ball so he/she clamps both legs around the ball just as B1 puts his/her hands on the ball. Both players call TO at the same time.

What you got?
Player control is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. I would probably give B1 the time out and explain it that way. Then again, I would have to see the play because if A1 can have A hand on the ball at any time during this tie up, I would probably jump it.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:51pm
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TO granted to Team B?
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:55pm
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I would think you'd have to have a held ball. I don't have the rule book before me, so I'm not sure if the provisions of a held ball require opposing players have their hands on ball or if lower extremities satisfy the requirement. If they both are asking for a time at or near the same time, whom do you grant it to?

If you grant the time out, the coach who may not want the time out, could argue that his player did NOT have player control of the ball. Or he or the other coach could argue that the player from team A may have kicked the ball, as they intentionally struck (grabbed/wrapped) the ball with their leg - in which case they would rather have the possession and not the timeout. Both are extreme, but I think that goes to the case of calling the held ball.

Interesting the stuff that goes on in the SW District of Ohio.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:56pm
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Illegal under ncaa

4.35.1 AR 94
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
A1 looses control of the ball and falls to the floor. B1 dives for the looses ball also. A1 cannot get his/her hands on the ball so he/she clamps both legs around the ball just as B1 puts his/her hands on the ball. Both players call TO at the same time.

What you got?
"Looses?" aargh!

"Kicked" ball violation on A1. B gets the ball. Ask B if they still want the TO.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
"Looses?" aargh!

"Kicked" ball violation on A1. B gets the ball. Ask B if they still want the TO.

Seriously? I'm pretty new here, so I wasn't sure if you were joking.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:20pm
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Like I mentioned before, I think you could sell a 'kicked ball' because A1 has their legs wrapped around the ball. I don't believe the rule book specifies what 'striking' the ball is, but grasping it with one's legs could probably be sold that way.


Or you could go with the held ball or a technical foul for making us think wayy to much about this play. I'm sure thats unsporting.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
Seriously? I'm pretty new here, so I wasn't sure if you were joking.
He's not joking. This is a kick ball under ncaa, I gave the rule in my first post.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:24pm
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He's serious. Know your definitions. "Kicking is defined as intentionally striking the ball with the leg.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
"Looses?" aargh!

"Kicked" ball violation on A1. B gets the ball. Ask B if they still want the TO.

I stand corrected.. Apologies are in order.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
He's not joking. This is a kick ball under ncaa, I gave the rule in my first post.
Thanks for the reference Dan, I just read it.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
"Kicked" ball violation on A1. B gets the ball. Ask B if they still want the TO.
Pretty sure he's serious and it's the smart way to go. Sounds from the description that player A intentionally contacted the ball with leg. I would think that call comes before a held ball call.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes
He's serious. Know your definitions. "Kicking is defined as intentionally striking the ball with the leg.
I'm familiar with this definition, I just wasn't aware that clamping the ball between your legs constituted kicking, but since it's very specific in the NCAA case play under 4.35 (Held Ball), and it specifically says it is illegal per 4-43 (Kicking), then as they say down here in the south... I've lurnt somethng today. Thanks.
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2007, 02:41pm
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Yes, I guess I over thought the play. Here it the rule along with a very similar case play from the 2007 NCAA Rule Book:

Section 43. Kicking the Ball
Art. 1. Kicking the ball is striking it intentionally with any part of the leg
or the foot.
Art. 2. Accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg shall not be a
violation.
A.R. 98. A1 is on the floor with the ball lodged between the upper part of the legs. B1
attempts to gain possession of the ball by placing two hands firmly on the ball; however,
A1 applies vice-like force with the upper legs, which prevents B1 from gaining possession
of the ball. RULING: A1 has committed a violation. The intent of this rule is to prevent
a player from gaining an advantage by using any part of the leg. Although A1 did not kick
or strike the ball with any part of the leg, the player did gain an illegal advantage, which
may also lead to undue roughness. Since A1 was not holding the ball in his or her hands,
B1ís firm placement of his or her hands on the ball does not constitute a held ball.
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