Woman's College Mechanics

[Old School]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Well we are going to have to disagree on that point because like I said I have never come across it in the womens game - in any pre game or last minute discussion we have had going in to a possible last possession in my time - but maybe you guys do that.

I can tell you this, you better not let an observer, catch you failing to rotate for that reason.
I have seen crews get reemed for not making late rotations, (not to put the C in the opposite position), but just failing to make a needed rotation late in a game or half.

I totally agree but what you fail to understand is the reason why. Let me try to explain. If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I totally agree but what you fail to understand is the reason why. Let me try to explain. If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

that's the rationale for making the opposite side the C in NFHS and men's mechanics. It has nothing to do with making the C the opposite side in women's mechanics.

[JRutledge]

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

This is something we I always pregame when I work with new people, but personally I don't like to lock down. We know what the responsiblities are as far as the last second shot. I like to rotate with the play and have the best look at the action no matter what time is on the clock.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me).

Peace

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

[OHBBREF]

Either way you look at
There is no demand (written or unwritten) that tries to move the C to the opposite for last second shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I am simply saying that this is a personal mechanic, not something widely endorsed by these officiating bodies. There are people that want to do these things during NF games because they are so caught up in doing Women's mechanics, they think everyone is interested in those same mechanics. This is not something just in the mind of one person.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I am simply saying that this is a personal mechanic, not something widely endorsed by these officiating bodies. There are people that want to do these things during NF games because they are so caught up in doing Women's mechanics, they think everyone is interested in those same mechanics. This is not something just in the mind of one person.

Peace

I'm disagreeing with the statement that it is a NCAA-W mechanic...it's not, never has been, and so I disagreed with your saying that that is where people are coming up with that strange idea.

And for SeanFitzRef, that is not the NCAA-W mechanic...C always has the clock, regardless of how much time was on the clock when the possession started...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I'm disagreeing with the statement that it is a NCAA-W mechanic...it's not, never has been, and so I disagreed with your saying that that is where people are coming up with that strange idea.

And for SeanFitzRef, that is not the NCAA-W mechanic...C always has the clock, regardless of how much time was on the clock when the possession started...

What is not a CCA Women's Mechanic? You just said the very same thing I did. Your response to SeanFitzRef just confirms that. Am I missing something here?

Peace

[Junker]

Maybe all this confusion is a great reason to dump women's mechanics and use the men's?

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Crews that I have worked with have stated that they like to do it this way. Some people just like having the C opposite the table for last second clock responibilities.

As a side note to earlier discussion, in Pro (and NCAA - W mechanics also, I believe), if the possession starts with 4.9 seconds or less the clock is the responsibily of the C, regardless of which side of the court (table-side or opposite). 5 or more, it is the T.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

As a side note to earlier discussion, in Pro (and NCAA - W mechanics also, I believe), if the possession starts with 4.9 seconds or less the clock is the responsibily of the C, regardless of which side of the court (table-side or opposite). 5 or more, it is the T.

That can't be right, can it?

[refguy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

That can't be right, can it?

No it's not right for women's. Women's mechanics is center has the last shot always.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

That can't be right, can it?

At NCAAW camps, we were taught to lock down at about the 15 mark. C will always (always always always) have last second shot. Not sure about the NBA. NCAAM and NFHS, it is opposite table unless discussed during pre-game. Some HS gym only has one clock on one side of the gym. We've had games (2 person crew) where the L gets the last shot since he/she has the best look at the clock.