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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 07:53pm
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I am a high school official and I have never called college ball and probably never will but have recently been attending some college D1 games - both men's and women's - and I have some questions about some of the mechanics. I notice that women's officials use a fist rammed forward like a jab to report a player control foul whereas men's officials use the pat on the back of the head as we high school officials use.
Also, women's officials switch table side when they call a foul and men's officials switch opposite as do we. I also think I noticed that college officials don't raise their hand to stop the clock on OOB calls but merely point the direction. The clock is not chopped on after a throwin in the same manner either. They seem to go from a raised hand to a shaking fist with their arm making a 90 degree angle at the elbow. "Really cool looking." Are these differences I've noticed the norm and are there many other differences in mechanics? Thanks, Ralph
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 08:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
I am a high school official and I have never called college ball and probably never will but have recently been attending some college D1 games - both men's and women's - and I have some questions about some of the mechanics. I notice that women's officials use a fist rammed forward like a jab to report a player control foul whereas men's officials use the pat on the back of the head as we high school officials use.
Ralph,
For one thing, (new this year) the college officials call that foul a "Team Control Foul".
mick
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 08:44pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
I notice that women's officials use a fist rammed forward like a jab to report a player control foul whereas men's officials use the pat on the back of the head as we high school officials use.
Also, women's officials switch table side when they call a foul and men's officials switch opposite as do we.
The college women's game has developed a philosophy much more closely aligned with the professional game. The officials in a women's game use mechanics, and to a large extent interpretations, that mirror the NBA game to a much larger degree than officials in a men's game. So many of the differences between "men's officials" and "women's officials" (for lack of better terms) can be traced directly to the mechanics and interpretations used in the NBA and/or WNBA.

The fist "punching" on offensive fouls is a pro mechanic. The hand behind the head obviously is not. Switching to table side on fouls is a pro mechanic. The men's officials still go opposite the table. You'll also notice that women's officials report the foul as they walk to the table ("walk and talk"), like the pros do. Men's officials are still supposed to hustle to the table, STOP, and then report the foul. Women's officials recognize an informal "no charge zone" under the basket much like the pro Restricted Area. Men's officials (by interpretation, although not always by practice) do not employ that concept.

Quote:
I also think I noticed that college officials don't raise their hand to stop the clock on OOB calls but merely point the direction. The clock is not chopped on after a throwin in the same manner either. They seem to go from a raised hand to a shaking fist with their arm making a 90 degree angle at the elbow.
Stopping the clock is a regional thing. Some assignors think it looks sharp to stop the clock. Other assignors think it makes you look like a traffic cop. It's also a bit of a status thing. Burr, Higgins, and other big time guys don't care which way the assignor likes it. They don't stop the clock, and nobody is really going to tell them they have to.

Clenching the fist to start the clock is also a pro mechanic that has been adopted by the women's game, and to a smaller extent filtered into the men's game.

Chuck
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 09:31pm
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...what's an offensive foul?

[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
[QUOTE]The fist "punching" on offensive fouls...[QUOTE]

...What's an offensive foul? I've looked all over the NFHS OFFICIAL BASKETBALL SIGNALS chart in the back of my Rule Book, and I'll be darned if I can find a signal for an "offensive foul".
Heck, I can't even find a definition for one of those types of fouls....

Dude

[Edited by RookieDude on Dec 8th, 2002 at 08:38 PM]
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 09:59pm
JO JO is offline
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Cool Re: ...what's an offensive foul?


...What's an offensive foul?

Check the chart for "player control" foul.

Hope this Helps...JO
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 10:14pm
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Exclamation Re: Re: ...what's an offensive foul?

Quote:
Originally posted by JO

...What's an offensive foul?

Check the chart for "player control" foul.

Hope this Helps...JO
JO,
You missed the the fact that there was some intentional humor regarding the use of incorrect terminology. Player control is a term used in Men and Fed. It is not used in Women.
There is no signal for an "offensive foul", is there?
mick
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 10:17pm
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Re: Re: ...what's an offensive foul?

Quote:
Originally posted by JO

...What's an offensive foul?

Check the chart for "player control" foul.

Hope this Helps...JO
What a I missing here?

There is a signal for a player control foul shown on the Fed chart.There is no signal for an "offensive foul" because there is no such thing in NFHS rules.That was RookieDude's point, I believe.

There's 5 offensive players on the court.Any one of them can commit a foul, but only one of them can possibly commit a player control foul.

Hope this helps.
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 10:32pm
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Talking

....ahhhhh, just having a little fun "ribbing" Chuck.
I'm sure he knows the correct terminology!
mick and JR were right on it.

Dude
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Old Sun Dec 08, 2002, 10:42pm
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Ralph: You bring up some good questions and observations regarding the differences in mechanics. Although some of the signals and procedures may be "sharp looking," or make more sense compared to others, it is important to use ONLY the correct ones. I mean the correct ones for the game you are officiating, whether it be HS, or college men or women. If a ref is working a NFHS game, he should follow their official's manual for signals, etc. Evaluators will not be impressed by college mechanics being used in a HS game.

NFHS referees should be able to work in any other state, with any other NFHS official, and be on the exact same page, mechanics-wise. As Chuck stated, some mechanics, or lack of mechanics, become customary in different regions. This is only because they choose or decide to "do their own thing," and ignore correct procedure.
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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 02:05am
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college backcourt switch

Another difference that I have noticed is that the NFHS manual says not to switch on a foul called by any of the three officials which will cause the ball to go from the backcourt to the frontcourt.
In college games I mostly see no one switch if the Lead calls this foul, but they do seem to switch if the C or T makes the call.
Is this the correct college procedure or are the guys just switching when they technically shouldn't be?
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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 02:32am
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Question Which one?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Another difference that I have noticed is that the NFHS manual says not to switch on a foul called by any of the three officials which will cause the ball to go from the backcourt to the frontcourt.
In college games I mostly see no one switch if the Lead calls this foul, but they do seem to switch if the C or T makes the call.
Is this the correct college procedure or are the guys just switching when they technically shouldn't be?
Men's has Long switches, Women's does not. Both are very different and Women's is very different to NF Mechanics. So in the case of long switches, all levels have their own philosophy on them.

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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
....ahhhhh, just having a little fun "ribbing" Chuck.
I'm sure he knows the correct terminology!
mick and JR were right on it.
Yes, and I got the point (and the humor) right away. I was speaking loosely b/c. . .

Quote:
Orignially posted by Jurassic Referee
There's 5 offensive players on the court.Any one of them can commit a foul, but only one of them can possibly commit a player control foul.
I didn't want to get into the new "Team Control" foul terminology. So I was intentionally lazy and used the pro terminology, b/c that's essentially what a team control foul is, and also b/c the fist punch is the pro mechanic.

And Jeff is right about long switches. Men's 3-whistle requires the long switch. Women's 3-whistle (again, b/c it employs the pro mechanic) does not.

Chuck

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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 10:32am
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In the women's game, fouls called in the backcourt may require a "slide" or a bump-and-run, but if no free throws are to be shot, then there are no long switches... what this person may have seen is a foul called by the C opposite the table in backcourt - we know the new T (old L) will handle the inbound pass on the opposite sideline, which means the old C - after reporting the foul - will "slide down to become the new L...maybe that is where the confusion is coming in...
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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 12:09pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Stubenthal
Also, women's officials switch table side when they call a foul and men's officials switch opposite as do we.

D-1 women supervisors have adapted the philosophy of the pros implementing the mechanic of the calling official going table-side. This requires the official to explain(briefly) what and why the whistle was blown. It requires that we are able to explain what we saw. "see what you call and call what you see". Being the first year of this mechanic...I love it. It makes you develop the people skills necessary to continue working at this level. You are able to talk a majority of coaches "off the ledge". It also aleviates answering questions about your partners calls. The coaches are able to go to the source rather than to an official that did not see the whole play. Believe it or not, coaches do not question you that often. At that level they are concerned about coaching rather than yelling...unless of course the call was questionable. There are alot less TECH's given. Maybe the men should go to it also.

The book also allows you to go opposite the table in extreme situations.
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Old Mon Dec 09, 2002, 12:13pm
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Look here for mechanics and rules.

http://www.ncaa.com/library/rules.html#basketball
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