Woman's College Mechanics

[Old School]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Not on any crew I have ever worked.
Why would you do that?
I have never seen a table with a clock?

I have never purposely locked the C inthe oposite position on one of my crews!

In men's and HS, it's always opposite the table. Going forward, I did mention that this was an unwritten rule. The reason is obvious, we want opposite table but we want the C to have it. Kind of like the best of both worlds.

I think the coverage area from the Lead deep in the cornier is better. If the ball is deep in the corner and the Trail 28 ft away has primary. The lead still has to keep one eye on the play in case the ball goes out on the baseline. It just makes more sense to have the Lead referee that area. The Trail and C 28 ft. away can take care of anything else at the boards. Should the pass go into the post from deep in the corner the Lead simply turns his head with the ball and slides down to cover this area.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Old School

In men's and HS, it's always opposite the table. Going forward, I did mention that this was an unwritten rule. The reason is obvious, we want opposite table but we want the C to have it. Kind of like the best of both worlds.
.

Again, absolute rubbish...it's an unwritten rule because it does NOT exist and no one in their right mind does it that way...at the NCAA level the clocks should be mounted on top of the backboard (anyone who actually worked that level would know this) and so being opposite the table has absolutely NO bearing on who has the last shot in NCAA-W basketball...

[tmp44]

Originally Posted by Old School

Should the pass go into the post from deep in the corner the Lead simply turns his head with the ball and slides down to cover this area.

This is an incorrect mechanic. Once the L picks up the ball in the deep corner in his/her primary, it is now the trail's responsibility to watch the post. If the L would simply "turn his head," L would have no idea how either the offensive player or the defensive player got there.

So, again, if the L picks up the ball in the deep corner, the trail picks up the post action.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by tmp44

This is an incorrect mechanic. Once the L picks up the ball in the deep corner in his/her primary, it is now the trail's responsibility to watch the post. If the L would simply "turn his head," L would have no idea how either the offensive player or the defensive player got there.

So, again, if the L picks up the ball in the deep corner, the trail picks up the post action.

True on the first part, but once the Lead doesn't have anything to officiate in the deep corner, he comes down to get that and has primary over the play. The T will verifiy thru eye contact that the L now has the play and be secondary on the play. Kind of like when you have the dribbler from the T and he moves into the C's primary. The minute he picks up the dribble, it is now C's responsibly. You still need eye contact from the C before you let it go.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Old School

True on the first part, but once the Lead doesn't have anything to officiate in the deep corner, he comes down to get that and has primary over the play. The T will verifiy thru eye contact that the L now has the play and be secondary on the play. Kind of like when you have the dribbler from the T and he moves into the C's primary. The minute he picks up the dribble, it is now C's responsibly. You still need eye contact from the C before you let it go.

Eye Contact or body language (square up to the play) to let you know that he/she's got that matchup

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Eye Contact or body language (square up to the play) to let you know that he/she's got that matchup

Body language to confirm that he has it before you release it. good point!

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Old School

In men's and HS, it's always opposite the table. Going forward, I did mention that this was an unwritten rule. The reason is obvious, we want opposite table but we want the C to have it. Kind of like the best of both worlds.

Well we are going to have to disagree on that point because like I said I have never come across it in the womens game - in any pre game or last minute discussion we have had going in to a possible last possession in my time - but maybe you guys do that.

I can tell you this, you better not let an observer, catch you failing to rotate for that reason.
I have seen crews get reemed for not making late rotations, (not to put the C in the opposite position), but just failing to make a needed rotation late in a game or half.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Well we are going to have to disagree on that point because like I said I have never come across it in the womens game - in any pre game or last minute discussion we have had going in to a possible last possession in my time - but maybe you guys do that.

I can tell you this, you better not let an observer, catch you failing to rotate for that reason.
I have seen crews get reemed for not making late rotations, (not to put the C in the opposite position), but just failing to make a needed rotation late in a game or half.

I totally agree but what you fail to understand is the reason why. Let me try to explain. If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I totally agree but what you fail to understand is the reason why. Let me try to explain. If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

that's the rationale for making the opposite side the C in NFHS and men's mechanics. It has nothing to do with making the C the opposite side in women's mechanics.

[JRutledge]

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

This is something we I always pregame when I work with new people, but personally I don't like to lock down. We know what the responsiblities are as far as the last second shot. I like to rotate with the play and have the best look at the action no matter what time is on the clock.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me).

Peace

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

[OHBBREF]

Either way you look at
There is no demand (written or unwritten) that tries to move the C to the opposite for last second shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I am simply saying that this is a personal mechanic, not something widely endorsed by these officiating bodies. There are people that want to do these things during NF games because they are so caught up in doing Women's mechanics, they think everyone is interested in those same mechanics. This is not something just in the mind of one person.

Peace