Woman's College Mechanics

[JRutledge]

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

In NCAA-W
The lock down is for rotation - meaning that since the lead does not move to the other side of the floor causing the C to become T and the T to become C there is no change of last second floor or in this case clock responsibilities.

In NCAA_M ( I believe there is no lock down) so a last second rotation can affect who has last second shot responsibilities. as could a last second transition because the the T and the L swap duties so the clock responsibilities either stay with the C or are exchanged by the new L and new T.
In transition since the C remains the C there is no changing of resposibilities and less of a chance of getting burned on the last second shot.
As far as bench personell being in the way, I disagree, if you are moving as you should to get the best angle on the play you can step out onto the court to avoid the bench personell - who if they are on the court and in your way there is whole other set of problems that could occur.
So I still say that the women have it right because every one knows who has clock responsibilities from the get go and it doesn't change a second before the shot goes off, there is time to assume the responsibility and be ready to handle it.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

that's the rationale for making the opposite side the C in NFHS and men's mechanics. It has nothing to do with making the C the opposite side in women's mechanics.

True and I never said it did, but it is the reason why the women and NBA go with the C here, period.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

In NCAA-W
The lock down is for rotation - meaning that since the lead does not move to the other side of the floor causing the C to become T and the T to become C there is no change of last second floor or in this case clock responsibilities.

My understanding is that the Lead can come across the lane to officiate the post, but that the T and C do not complete the rotation; the L is expected to go back to the side of the lane where he/she started. Is that incorrect?

In NCAA_M ( I believe there is no lock down) so a last second rotation can affect who has last second shot responsibilities.

This is false. The official opposite the table has the last shot. So if the C is opposite the table, he has the last shot. If we have a rotation, he is now Trail, but is still opposite the table and so he still has the last shot. The rotation does not affect last-shot responsibility at all.

as could a last second transition because the the T and the L swap duties so the clock responsibilities either stay with the C or are exchanged by the new L and new T.

This is true. In a quick transition, or steal-and-heave situation, the last shot responsibility will change if two officials are opposite the table. The new Trail will have the last shot in those situations. But since we all know that, it's not really ever a problem that I've ever heard of.

[Red_Killian]

The closely guarded rule is a little different too. It is anywhere on the court, not just in the front court, as mentioned. The defender must be within 3 feet and it must be the same defender for the whole 5 second count.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

This is something we I always pregame when I work with new people, but personally I don't like to lock down. We know what the responsiblities are as far as the last second shot. I like to rotate with the play and have the best look at the action no matter what time is on the clock.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

My understanding is that the Lead can come across the lane to officiate the post, but that the T and C do not complete the rotation; the L is expected to go back to the side of the lane where he/she started. Is that incorrect?

You are correct.

I have never heard about having the C end up opposite the table. I can't think of any reason to do this.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Red_Killian

The closely guarded rule is a little different too. It is anywhere on the court, not just in the front court, as mentioned. The defender must be within 3 feet and it must be the same defender for the whole 5 second count.

And it's only during a held ball.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me).

Peace

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

[OHBBREF]

Scrappy
I should have said that a last second rotation and a transition could change who has last second shot coverage.

[OHBBREF]

Either way you look at
There is no demand (written or unwritten) that tries to move the C to the opposite for last second shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I am simply saying that this is a personal mechanic, not something widely endorsed by these officiating bodies. There are people that want to do these things during NF games because they are so caught up in doing Women's mechanics, they think everyone is interested in those same mechanics. This is not something just in the mind of one person.

Peace

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Crews that I have worked with have stated that they like to do it this way. Some people just like having the C opposite the table for last second clock responibilities.

As a side note to earlier discussion, in Pro (and NCAA - W mechanics also, I believe), if the possession starts with 4.9 seconds or less the clock is the responsibily of the C, regardless of which side of the court (table-side or opposite). 5 or more, it is the T.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

As a side note to earlier discussion, in Pro (and NCAA - W mechanics also, I believe), if the possession starts with 4.9 seconds or less the clock is the responsibily of the C, regardless of which side of the court (table-side or opposite). 5 or more, it is the T.

That can't be right, can it?