Tricky Error

[billyc8037]

Ok... here's the situation: Team B commits a foul. Trail reports the foul to the table and scorer announces 7th team foul it's now 1 & 1. A1 reports to the free throw line. Trail announces "1 & 1". Lead administering the ball announces "2 Shots". Trail does NOT hear Lead announce "2 Shots". Neither does the table. A1 takes his free throw, the ball hits the rim but misses. No player in the lanes move their position as they are waiting for the second attempt to be administered. A1 moves off the foul line and gets his own rebound, shoots and scores two points. No one in the lane has yet to move and the Lead realizing his mistake blows the whistle to stop the clock and announces his mistake. Both officials confer, let the points remain despite the obvious objections from team B and gives the ball to team B. Was this correct? Should the officials have waved off the goal and let the 1 & 1 re-try?. Should they have discounted the goal and just given the ball to team B due to the missed attempt and called it an inadvertent whistle? Go to the possession arrow? I couldn't find a correctable error ruling that seemed to fit.

Billy C

[grunewar]

Officials Provide Erroneous Information - Case Book 8.6.1 Play should be whistled dead and go to the alternate posession arrow.

[billyc8037]

Do you leave the goal scored?

[deecee]

ready up the case book play grune provided -- but you do not score the basket. "play should be whistled dead." that means the play -- being the scoring of the basket should be DEAD. much like bellbottoms and collared striped shirts. or to really kill generously apply the Old School Stare of Imminent Death (tm) with a sprinkle of chuck norris.

[Adam]

Technical foul on A1 for not giving a dead ball directly to the official. No 2nd free throw for A1. B gets two shots (maybe four, that depends) and the ball.

Seriously, the official announced two shots, therefore this ball was not live when the shooter caught it. Since the ball was not live, this basket does not count, and go to the arrow.

[CLH]

I had this exact situation happen to me my third season. I was the lead, my partner (a 20 year veteran) didn't have a clue what to do. Luckily, me being the know it all kid, knew exactly what to do. I got it right! I won't lie thought, it was mostly luck that day.

CLH

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Technical foul on A1 for not giving a dead ball directly to the official. No 2nd free throw for A1. B gets two shots (maybe four, that depends) and the ball.

Seriously, the official announced two shots, therefore this ball was not live when the shooter caught it. Since the ball was not live, this basket does not count, and go to the arrow.

Seriously, I do not agree with that. (I'm assuming that by "the shooter" you mean the player who rebounded the missed FT and subsequently made a try for goal.)

The ball was live during the FT and remains live after it because no FT is to follow, despite what the official stated, unless an official sounds the whistle. Only a whistle sounding would make this ball dead.

Notice that the casebook play says that the whistle should be sounded immediately. The problem is what if it isn't?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Seriously, I do not agree with that. (I'm assuming that by "the shooter" you mean the player who rebounded the missed FT and subsequently made a try for goal.)

The ball was live during the FT and remains live after it because no FT is to follow, despite what the official stated, unless an official sounds the whistle. Only a whistle sounding would make this ball dead.

Notice that the casebook play says that the whistle should be sounded immediately. The problem is what if it isn't?

Then 1 of 2 things will happen:

1. Coach B ( the other guy) will jump up and protest that the bonehead at L said 2 shots instead of 1&1. Then you confer and agree that coach B did get screwed, wipe off the basket and give the ball to the team with the arrow.
Rule? Two dot three, out favorite. L buys post game food & drinks.

2. No one will complain and the game will continue. At the next opportunity ask the L WTF just happened. L only buys first round.

[tjones1]

Seems like this situation has been coming up a lot around here lately. It's good to pre-game this and that you confirm how many shots are being shot. Slow down, no need to rush into an error.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Seems like this situation has been coming up a lot around here lately. It's good to pre-game this and that you confirm how many shots are being shot. Slow down, no need to rush into an error.

Only because it happened in the 4A boys State Championship game in Idaho!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Seriously, I do not agree with that. (I'm assuming that by "the shooter" you mean the player who rebounded the missed FT and subsequently made a try for goal.)

The ball was live during the FT and remains live after it because no FT is to follow, despite what the official stated, unless an official sounds the whistle. Only a whistle sounding would make this ball dead.

Notice that the casebook play says that the whistle should be sounded immediately. The problem is what if it isn't?

The administering official stated "two." This means he has granted an unwarranted free throw, even though it won't be shot until after this first shot. This is a correctable error.
Also, since he has granted the following shot (however erroneously), the ball becomes dead as soon as the shot has missed.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The administering official stated "two." This means he has granted an unwarranted free throw, even though it won't be shot until after this first shot. This is a correctable error.
Also, since he has granted the following shot (however erroneously), the ball becomes dead as soon as the shot has missed.

I don't agree with that.

Could you please show me in the book where this verbal statement amounts to awarding an unmerited FT?

The truth is that an unmerited FT isn't awarded until it physically takes place.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Only because it happened in the 4A boys State Championship game in Idaho!

It also happened in the 2007 Conference USA tournament in Memphis. Quarter final game. Tulane vs Tulsa.
6 of us from St Louis were at the game. Since I am a basketball referee, I had to explain the ruling to my friends and the people surrounding me. We were sitting about 6 rows behind the official scorer. The officials were not happy with the scorekeeper. They got it right. I believe this happened with 13 seconds left in the game.

[jmaellis]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

It also happened in the 2007 Conference USA tournament in Memphis. Quarter final game. Tulane vs Tulsa.
6 of us from St Louis were at the game. Since I am a basketball referee, I had to explain the ruling to my friends and the people surrounding me. We were sitting about 6 rows behind the official scorer. The officials were not happy with the scorekeeper. They got it right. I believe this happened with 13 seconds left in the game.

If it was the same situation being discussed in this thread, why were the officials not happy with the scorekeeper?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't agree with that.

Could you please show me in the book where this verbal statement amounts to awarding an unmerited FT?

The truth is that an unmerited FT isn't awarded until it physically takes place.

My monkey's lost his internet access and asked me to post this for him

Originally Posted by MonkeyRef

Good point.

Two dot three.

Play it as if the whistle had been blown prior to the basket.